Podcast: Untangling the Paradox of The Busyness Paradox
The Busyness Paradox Episode #36: Untangling the Paradox of The Busyness Paradox
As the Business Paradox returns from a quick break, we take a few minutes to answer your questions, take stock of the Business Paradox’s first 15 months of existence, and reflect on the time we started a heated hoodie cult.
Episode Transcript:
Frank Butler:
Hello, Busybodies. Frank here. We appreciate your patience. During this little bit of a hiatus from another episode of the Busyness Paradox, Paul and I had made the decision that it was time for us to take a little break. So we could focus in on our work and our personal lives and deal with all the things that we’re having to juggle and decided that, hey, it’s a good time to take a little bit of a pause. And now we’re back. And we’re calling the season two. Now, this episode is going to be great. It’s sort of a reflection on the first season, we’re answering reviewer questions and bringing up some of the things that have come up along the way. But we also decided to change the order because this is now going to be the start of season two. We actually had it we were talking about another episode that we were intending to release first, but we did not so we change the order. So the episode you want to Lupu is actually going to come afterwards. But we are excited about season two. We’re looking forward to getting this going. Please tell your friends about the podcast, share it with others. Rate, Subscribe. whatever platform you use, we appreciate it reach out to us. We love hearing from you. We hope you enjoy this episode. Welcome to the start of season two. Hello, Busybodies, welcome to another episode of the Busyness Paradox. I’m Frank Butler, here with Paul Harvey. Good day, good day. And today, we’ve got a hodgepodge of things that we want to talk about answering questions or comments from listeners that we’ve gotten over time,
Paul Harvey:
Which we’ve never really done before. So we’ve accumulated a few recurring questions, I think that it might make sense to talk about on the show, really random one off questions, we’ll usually just respond by email. But there’s been a few that we’ve seen, you know, enough times that we think maybe you’d like to hear us talk about them.
Frank Butler:
So talk about them, we will
Paul Harvey:
indeed
Frank Butler:
And I’m going to start with a actually, it was a WhatsApp message to me from one of my graduates from the Veterans entrepreneurship program that we have at UTC. I’m the faculty director of that if you know a veteran who has a business or is wanting to start a business, have them go check us out utc.edu/v P. So veterans entrepreneurship program. We do really great work, I think, but you know, I’m biased. But this is from Dwayne and Dwayne actually sent me his story. He was listening to our 15 Hour Workweek episode. And as from where this is my favorite part, baileigh roots of all Belrose, you know, and of course, Europe slash dictatorship. And in thinking about it right now to Bella Rousses, neighbor to Ukraine and Russian troops are going through it to enter into Ukraine. So when we’re recording this episode happens to be around the time of the Ukrainian invasion by Russia. So very interesting, but his wife is from Belarus. They were visiting family and friends. And he sent me this this really, really cool message about our 15 hour episode, and
Paul Harvey:
I’ll just interrupt and say nothing but love for Ukraine. I spent a weekend there 12 years ago, and was very touched by the kindness of complete strangers. So it’s sad to think of those same individuals going through they’re going through right now. So Godspeed.
Frank Butler:
Yeah, I will echo that. I’ve had nothing but great experiences with the Ukrainians. They’ve been awesome people. Yeah, for real, it is a tragedy. So a quick rehash of the 15 Hour Workweek, it was based on the Keynes, the economy, The Economist, Keynes, who had said basically that, within like 60 years, so his great grandchildren, productivity gains, and this is focused more on manufacturing, would be such that the productivity needed to work get the same amount of productivity from back then to now would only require 15 hours of work week, right?
Paul Harvey:
Basically, by the year 2000, he predicted from 1930, that we would be working 15 hours a week because we’d be so productive. That would be all that was necessary.
Frank Butler:
Right? And you and I also went into some other things like talking about what is it the fire or whatever the those who are like super frugal and retire early,
Paul Harvey:
right, that you can potentially live the Canadian dream, but a lot of obstacles exist to artificially make it harder than it has to be to work a 15 hour right. Exactly, in our opinion.
Frank Butler:
Right, you know, especially the consumerism end of things correct.
Paul Harvey:
And the busy work end of things and, of course,
Frank Butler:
you know, in we’re certainly significantly more productive today but yet we are still working way too much. The hours. That’s that’s what it is. But what’s interesting is Dwayne was talking about that. He wanted to be able to manage his business, if at some point his disability took him to a certain level, and you had to be in a hospital bed, that he could still manage his business that he has. And
Paul Harvey:
what was his disability? I’m sorry, if you already said that. I, I don’t know. I guess
Frank Butler:
disability actually, is we don’t ask, do favor disabled veterans, but so we have a wide array of them. Gotcha. But he did say, if he ended up being in a hospital bed, he wanted to be able to continue to at least run parts of the business from there and rely on others to help them. And he said that he now works a 20 hour week on his business, generally four hours, three days a week, and a six or seven hour day. He does say that, at the end of the month, when he’s running his QuickBooks and reports, it takes a little longer. But for the most part, he is working on this sort of 20 Hour Workweek. And he said, as his business grows, it’s his goal to reduce those hours by outsourcing tasks more. So he is really trying hard to make this a business that almost lifestyle business in a sense, but it does have a growth element to it.
Paul Harvey:
And he seems like he’s able to do so if he was working for someone else. things do seem to be changing a little bit. But odds are good that he would not be allowed to work 20 hour work week? No, even if that was all he needed. No. So it’s a bit of a sad state of affairs that you got to work for yourself, if you want to be able to try this out.
Frank Butler:
Exactly. And he does have a interesting business. He does home health care kind of stuff. I’m not going to give the specifics. But broadly, that’s he goes to people’s homes who need assistance. So it’s a really great, uplifting sort of thing, too, which is nice. But he said, he said he was listening to it. And he wanted to add his story to it. So he’s making enough money to be comfortable doing that. But he also said there was the other part of the podcast, where were you talking about this, like retire early living a minimalistic lifestyle type of thing. And he’s like, he agreed with our factors, which is nice to hear somebody agreeing with some of the attributes we discussed, especially living in the USA, he says, Now, this is where it gets really interesting, too. He says now if you go out of the USA, South America, for example, you can live pretty good with a basic income, stashing money away and ride the wave literally or figuratively love that little bit there. But he’s talking about Belrose here and he says where my wife is from, most people make about $350 a month. And he’s like, I’m currently pulling in a little bit more than that. And I’m not gonna give exact numbers but it’s, well, I’ll give it a little bit is that about 2500 a month in salary. He’s got pulled out. And then he has an owner’s draw. He’s also pulling out
Paul Harvey:
in Belarus. I think. I’m just remembering living in
Frank Butler:
Hungary. I mean, I remember visiting you, you know, it was like, he pulled money from the ATM and it was like, Oh, I’m, I’m rich. I’m a millionaire.
Paul Harvey:
Especially because of the foreign right. The foreign to you had pulled out like 100,000 every couple weeks and like you got 100 grand in my pocket. Yeah,
Frank Butler:
I remember that. And then you had this amazing flat they put you in that apartment that you were in was ridiculous.
Paul Harvey:
Wow, that was the best place I’ve ever lived was that that part was just to
Frank Butler:
put it in perspective for all of you that the flat they put him in was off the main sort of shopping drag that high end type street that you find it
Paul Harvey:
under a shoot. Yeah, kind of the Shamsul is a of you know, every every European Capitol kind of has that like made a drag
Frank Butler:
and he was right there and like, was like was it above a Louis Vuitton store or something like that? It was right by something like that. I remember being like a high end like Louis Vuitton type thing or Chanel or
Paul Harvey:
there was a lot of like supermodels that always walked in and out of that building. There’s some kind of like a beauty salon or something for like models before a photoshoot. Like I’m not kidding like that was my life is like this palatial apartment with these comically beautiful women just why parading by everyday I hate Oh, yeah, things are changed. Now. I wouldn’t. Couldn’t have pulled that off today. It’s more expensive there now than it used to be. But
Frank Butler:
yeah, you could go and walk down the street and you would literally see a Lada parked next to a Lamborghini. And you couldn’t see me that the contrast between the Russian made vehicle in a Lamborghini
Paul Harvey:
le communistic era. What were the word, the ones the Trabant that I was all obsessed with? Yeah, it seems like rusty Ultra bunt next to some very fancy expensive new thing made it very interesting for sure. A country in transition, I guess. Sorry, that was not relevant to anything that we’re talking about here.
Frank Butler:
But hey, we want to paint a picture of the contrasting and changing economies. But yeah, so he’s like, on this money he’s got with his owner, just draw on his salary he’s pulling. He’s like, living is cheap, and I’m living a good life with all The extras. He’s like, Yeah, he has to pay for like flights and such. But outside of that he’s got a pretty low cost of living
Paul Harvey:
in a staggeringly dangerous country for an American to be living in, but obviously with his, you know, he’s got the local in with the spouse, and he’s got the military accommodations,
Frank Butler:
right, equally close it up, basically. So yes, it’s possible, you just have to be willing to readjust your thinking, you know, again, living that minimalist lifestyle secret, retire early, what have you, is like, Thanks for the mental stimulation, the podcast, which I love that we’re mentally stimulating others. That’s one of our goals in there. So Dwayne, thank you so much for sharing your story. loved hearing it. Glad you are a listener from Bella Ruth right now where you’re visiting. And, yeah, that’s pretty cool.
Paul Harvey:
It’s very cool. Partly because I’m fascinated by Eastern Europe in general and Belarus, other than the Czech Republic, for some reason. It’s like the only two Eastern European countries I haven’t been to yet. And I don’t think going to Belarus is going to happen anytime soon. So I’m fascinated by that. But mostly, it’s just nice to hear from hear from listeners, which we do from from time to time. And don’t be shy folks with. As you can see, we like to hear these stories. And it helps us know who’s listening and you know, who’s hearing what we’re saying? That’s right.
Frank Butler:
Now, let me just chime in and talking about listeners, let’s just briefly go through the reach that the Busyness Paradox has gotten, and it’s short time on this planet. So I’m just going to kind of go through the list of countries where people have listened to the Busyness Paradox, and obviously the United States, so thank you to all our domestic listeners. But we have Germany, Canada, France, Australia, Sweden, United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, we have talked about being kind of high up on the rankings and Saudi Arabia, New Zealand, South Africa, Philippines, Denmark, Norway, United Arab Emirates, Mexico, Argentina, Turkey, Switzerland, Netherlands hungry, so hungry, probably some Paul’s former students or colleagues there. Japan, India, Spain, Russia, Austria, China, Luxembourg, Italy, Singapore, Belarus, Ireland, Chile, Cote de Iver, or Harvard says the Ivory Coast
Paul Harvey:
Cote d’Ivoire, I think,
Frank Butler:
yeah, I don’t speak French. Slovenia, Cyprus, Portugal, Cayman Islands, Cayman Islands, interesting. Israel, Georgia, the country of not the state, Pakistan, Bahamas and Guatemala. I mean, holy cow worldwide
Paul Harvey:
Taking this thing global
Frank Butler:
We’re global.
Paul Harvey:
Where are you North Korea? Come on, letting us down.
Frank Butler:
Which is why we need more stories from people, right? Because we don’t want this to just be a domestic oriented podcast, we did record an episode with a scholar out of France. I mean, she was Romanian. So you want to Lupu where we talked about optimal busyness. But, you know, this is not supposed to just be about the United States. This is supposed to be about work life, at work and life anywhere in the
Paul Harvey:
globe now don’t think it is. But that is where the majority of our experiences are rooted. So we can always use some help expanding our view outside just our own country.
Frank Butler:
We need to hear the experiences of others. Right. The US has a very, let me rephrase the US has a unique aspect to work right, a unique perspective on
Paul Harvey:
a unique workplace culture and perspective. Yeah,
Frank Butler:
I mean, you think about it, we’re one of the few countries that doesn’t have federal time off like requirements, we’re one of the few that doesn’t have maternity or paternity leave, we
Paul Harvey:
have those things. They’re just not like mandated. They sort of are but not paid leave is not mandated. Right. Right.
Frank Butler:
Thank you for the clarification. So anyway, that’s why hearing from others, in telling those stories is a great thing to do.
Paul Harvey:
I’m always fascinated to hear what what the work life balance norms are like, in other countries, even countries that have been to, you don’t always get a sense of that kind of thing. So that that can be really fascinating.
Frank Butler:
You know, I think so much of it too, is you think about how much time off they get. You just know that has to be so good for the mental aspect of things for your family connections, whatever it might be.
Paul Harvey:
I think the US is starting to realize we’ve been on the wrong side of history with that, you know, traditionally, Americans have always felt that they would rather be paid more and have less time off. And still, I mean, there was just a few years ago, is a study commissioned by Huffington Post and somebody else, even then they found that in the US something around the 50% mark, just over just under 50% said, these are people who worked a five day work week so they would work a six day they’d be willing to work a six day every week, if it meant a 20% Raise. That’s more traditionally what you see in the US but by no large I think the metal thing guy, I know that the the culture is shifted to say, yeah, maybe maybe we’ve kind of overrated this work more, get paid more thing, maybe a bit more time off is worth the trade off.
Frank Butler:
I really do think the pandemic has helped with that too, though. Yeah.
Paul Harvey:
Because now we see, wait a minute, we can have the best of both worlds, right.
Frank Butler:
I mean, there’s just so much there. That’s, that’s been a lot of other podcast has originated from. But we can talk about now we’ve gotten questions of how do we select topics. And I think this is an interesting thing, because sometimes it’s just random, right? I mean, like the again, mentioning you Ana Lupu, she sent us her article, and we’re like, we have to have her on. She’s literally written the paper on busyness.
Paul Harvey:
I think the background story maybe is helpful. There. Were I was visiting my mother further, maybe second or third time since the pandemic started. And I accidentally checked our email account. I’m not a fan of checking email accounts as listeners, longtime listeners will recall, but I accidentally clicked on the tab or something. And I saw the this email, we had kind of an interesting subject line about optimal busyness. And so I’m sitting there at my mom’s house completely ignoring or reading this article that was sent to me by you wanna? And yeah, by page, like, three of the thing. I was like, Frank, we got to, we got to get this person on the podcast. So yeah, that was a truly random occurrence that
Frank Butler:
Gratuitous for sure. It was great having her on. And it was a great conversation. And I think, really, we told the story in our in our initial podcast, of how we got started with a podcast and sort of what we intended that to be. And of course, it’s changed a little bit. It’s not always solely on work life balance, we certainly talk about things going on in the workplace, or in the work life balance front, but also, other topics that we just find fascinating, or that could have implications for legal things, or what have you, right cost of living. Every basically work related things there they are going to relate to work, but oftentimes to we bring it back to how does it impact also your personal side, right, your mental health, your, your health in general, your ability to have downtime to get your mind, right, you know, when we talk about things like Nixon and what have you. And I think a lot of it is that Paul and I both read and get news from a variety of sources. And every, and we’ll just stumble on something that one of us will be like, Man, we have to cover this on a podcast, or in some other cases to will get sent stuff. That’s like you guys have to do this in your podcast, right? Like, I forgot which one we recorded that was about that. I think one was, oh, goodness, my mind’s blinking. Moral moral injury, I think was one. And that when he got sent by two or three people, maybe, yeah, yeah. I mean, it was weird. Because it’s like certain times we’ll get two or three people been like, Oh, you got to do this. And we’re like, Well, I guess you have to do that. Right. So you know, there’s that. And, again, when we come across certain topics that we feel like fits our general theme, we’ll we’ll send it to one another and be like, Hey, this is something we should really talk about.
Paul Harvey:
And there’s some like survival of the fittest, with the topics to like, sometimes will say, yeah, it’s a good topic, let’s do it. But then it just sort of doesn’t happen. Like it just never really had the wind in its sails to actually become the topic of an episode. So I think some of the weaker ideas sort of wind the weed themselves out that way.
Frank Butler:
Yep. I agree. There’s certain things we have recorded that probably were pretty good. But, you know, for a variety different reasons. We didn’t go with it. I mean, we’ve got one still sitting there that we have not done that’s on salary and drugs. Yeah. And that’s, that’s, that’s the folder that we haven’t saved as I don’t even actually truly remember the content
Paul Harvey:
is about drug testing as Yeah, that’s right. It’s an expensive thing companies do. Why do they do they need to still do it as much as they do?
Frank Butler:
That’s right, because we were talking about how there’s all these jobs shortages, and the companies are scrambling to hire, so that dropping a lot of these drug test requirements, right. Yeah, I think that’s what we it’s a good topic, and it fits into the theme of Busyness Paradox, excuse me, but I’m not sure why we actually haven’t really
Paul Harvey:
It’s…well…some topics don’t really age…they’re more evergreen. And I think that’s been part of the issue with that one. It’s like, there’s not never been an urgency to get that one out. Or something is like, Oh, we just talking about something. It’s happening right now in the news. Let’s get this thing out before it’s weirdly outdated.
Frank Butler:
Right. And I think that comes to another sort of end on the topics though, is that you and I often agree on what we’re going to talk about right in terms of like, this is a great topic. Let’s talk about although there’s some that we’ve had some sort of like ah, like moral injury is not one that’s your favorite.
Paul Harvey:
But yeah, yeah, I was. I was dragged a little bit reluctantly into that one, but I’m glad we did it.
Frank Butler:
Do we ever disagree? Right?
Paul Harvey:
Yes, early on. The question was, you know, I assume you don’t always like agree on everything like in general, do you pick topics that you see things similarly on? You know, if you if you’re not on the same side of an issue, do you just not do a show on it? And of course, my response was, I don’t know, if we’ve never never talked. I never thought about that. And I don’t know I would. It’s not a conscious decision. But we just sort of pick topics that we think are interesting and land where we land.
Frank Butler:
That’s it, right? We don’t have a lot of pre planning going into it in terms of who stands where on it. We just sort of talk through things.
Paul Harvey:
Yeah, no, no real scripting or anything like, yeah, we try that a little bit to have very structured. You know, we’re all about structure last year, as longtime listeners will recall, there’s a point of diminishing returns, or even negative returns there where it’s just not real anymore. If it’s too planned out. Generally, it’s worked out better to just let this see where things go. And you know, sometimes you got to edit out some like weird tangents that didn’t go anywhere. But
Frank Butler:
no, you’re right, though. It’s like, when we tried to overly structure it. It didn’t feel natural, even though it seemed like it was on paper. Through execution, it’s just not how we sort of evolved into the next idea on it. And it did feel forced, especially because then we’d have too much conversation leading into it. And then we lost the good bits when we finally started recording,
Paul Harvey:
Then like all the energy was gone. Like we already talked about this. Yeah. I think some of my favorite episodes are the ones we had said, there’s a period of maybe three months, probably about a year ago, I guess that early 2021, where maybe five episodes in a row, we wouldn’t talk about it all one would just one of us would spring, the topic on the other one, about 10 minutes before we started recording. So we would alternate each week, who did the spring on a topic onto the other one. The episodes from that era were I think, some of the best and others you’ve never heard, I guess they just like, they just flopped. That was kind of an extreme lack of structure. But let me go back to the original question. Do we ever disagree on stuff? You know, of course, yeah. I think I have very strong stance on the, you know, the inherent evil of Libya, you know, an extra day of the calendar year, every four years? I don’t know why that’s evil, but I’m pretty sure it is. And I’m not sure how Frank feels about that.
Frank Butler:
I’ve actually never really given it much thought. I mean, either to be a free day off for everybody, because why the heck is there an extra friggin day in the years to get an extra day of work out of people? That’s what it is. That’s what it does evil corporate demand, capitalism is the is the evil banks. Right. It’s all pure gamble. And that’s another thing I think we will agree on, on the misrepresentation of capitalism and most of this, but I think, you know, what we do have some disagreements are things like government intervention on some things? Like I, I took a pretty good stance on saying that, you know, I think the government does need to get involved with paid time off and making it more of a requirement. Paul’s a little bit less in that camp.
Paul Harvey:
And I understand the logic, we both want the same thing. Just
Frank Butler:
Well, I mean, it’s, it makes sense. It’s hard to trust the government or, you know, I mean, you think about it’s, it’s this huge, sometimes overwrought, multiple layers of bureaucracy, it’s like, it’s, they’re not going to always execute at the highest level, and they’re trying to take care of 350 ish million people that all have different needs, and have different concerns and have to try to address all that. So it’s like, it’s just going to be a hot mess.
Paul Harvey:
But to be fair, it’s not that hard. Like, they don’t really have to do much to say you have to have a certain amount of paid time off. Job’s done, I guess. Right. It wasn’t designed to be efficient. You know, it was it was made to get in its own way, deliberately, you know, so I mean, it’s, you mix that with and bleep yours. Yeah, leave yours. Mostly, the leave your thing.
Frank Butler:
I think the thing though, the whole thing is that Paul and I generally agree on the broader topics at hand, we think that corporations need to be a little bit more forward thinking and how they treat their employees. I you know, from a strategy perspective, I always say, you know, it’s not profits first. It’s you got to take care of your employees and take care of your customers, and the profits will come if you’re doing those things. Well. I mean, there’s some pieces to it, but that’s tends to be what I tell my students, I’ve never been a company’s exist for their shareholders. I’ve never taken that stance. I don’t like that stance. I think it’s, that is the reality. Right? Right. That’s what’s been taught for a while in a lot of places. I,
Paul Harvey:
I mean, but legally, though, legally, you’re responsible this year? Well, you’re probably held company, which is actually not many companies.
Frank Butler:
But you got to think that’s only the fiduciary responsibility doesn’t mean that you can’t take care of your employees and your customers and be profitable and take care of your shareholders. It’s much more about you’re not screwing the shareholders by lying and doing things that would be counterproductive, right? But if you’re taking care of if you look at so here’s my general, if you look at the companies who always put their customers employees first, again, I’m not saying that the customer is always right. In that scenario, I’m just saying there’s a strong focus on making good products or providing good services, excellent services, and taking care of the people, because they’re the ones who are interfacing with the customers, they tend to have above average returns. It’s just a matter of changing the focus. There’s,
Paul Harvey:
I would say they have above average returns, if they survived, like if they didn’t get undercut by some, you know, crappy Apple still exists. Right? operation. But the point is that that, like, drove them out of the out of business. Yeah, I mean, apples like the well, the gold standard for this. I mean, they had no no business still existing past the 90s. That’s the thing they got them through.
Frank Butler:
Yeah, I mean, you got to think you’re right. There’s always some price pressure in some cases, but there’s always this notion of, if you’re doing the right thing for the customers and your employees are being, you know, properly incentivized and taken care of to do the right things. You’re also going to innovate better, right? You’ve got you know, there’s obviously lots of pieces to it’s like your leadership matters. But it’s like, the willingness to, to so many agencies cannibalize your own products, right to be continually moving your company in the future. So you don’t get undercut by somebody else. And you don’t get surprised by new technological developments, those kinds of things. So broader, broadly speaking, there’s that and of course, Paul’s got the the more micro perspective on things. Yeah, with regards to this whole work life,
Paul Harvey:
which is actually I guess, I would have assumed going into this, even though know each other for 20 years or something, I would have assumed, perhaps, slightly more disagreement, just because of that micro macro level focus difference, that I would just be focusing on different things. But yeah, I don’t think that’s really been a source of any, you know, disagreement. I think part of the part of the thing is, you know, our whole deal is that there’s pros and cons to really everything in management and in work and in life, really. Like there’s no, how many times have we said it, like, there’s no one right best way to do things. There’s no five listicle, five secrets to management success, blah, blah, our whole diatribe about listicles. And such, like, when you take that stance that any solution is gonna have some pros and cons do it. It’s hard to really just like have a heated disagreement when you’re when both parties are open to the fact that neither side is necessarily 100%. Correct. My pros and cons are better than your pros and cons. Let’s fight like, yeah,
Frank Butler:
yeah, that’s valid, too. Because I think that’s something else that we do do is we we are open to the other’s perspective, because we know that we each bring something different to the table from our expertise areas, right. And you see what
Paul Harvey:
happens with politics. When people don’t do that, you know, when the one side of the other just refuses to listen to the other viewpoint. It’s like, they feel like it’s dangerous to hear, you know, the other side, that your arguments get so sloppy, because you’re never defending them. You’re never like, critically thinking about him. You’re just talking to people who feel the same way you do. And then you don’t even realize when you’re when your whole logic has gone off the rails because you’re not, there’s no checks and balances against
Frank Butler:
when did it become a weakness? To actually be able to say, you know, there are things that are right, that you’re saying, I don’t necessarily agree with all of it. But you know, you are right, that there’s something that needs to be done. You know, we need to work together on doing this stuff. Like when does that become a bad thing? When is it become a bad thing to concede that you might be wrong? You know, it’s like, I do it a lot. You know, it’s like,
Paul Harvey:
I was listening to another podcast the other day episode of the last debate, which is a great show, they had a guest on who’s who said something like, you know, at what point when did it become crazy to be in the middle of the political spectrum, but yet left and right. Why are the extreme ends suddenly like they’re calling us crazy? Because we’re in the middle like everyone’s assuming because you haven’t chosen aside that you’re just like, You’re You’re nuts or something? Like when did the negative be like balanced in your thinking become the the anomaly and like the things that makes people suspiciously get negative?
Frank Butler:
You know, it’s funny, because it’s like when it become being in the middle mean that you’re a liberal to one side and darn conservative, you know, it’s, yeah.
Paul Harvey:
Oh, welcome to my world. Frank. Half the people in the world think I’m a you know, communist agent. The other half think that I’m like,
Frank Butler:
I’ve actually been called super liberal. And I’m like, That’s funny, because I
Paul Harvey:
read net conservative. Yeah. It’s like, in the same day, I’ve been called super liberal and like, super conservative. You realize I’m just kind of in between both of those things, right. Like,
Frank Butler:
but that just shows you where the world’s going in a lot of ways. And again, you know, I’ll say I’ll blame it on things like Facebook because I think Facebook is I think I will put Facebook up there. With the evils of leap year for Paul,
Paul Harvey:
yeah, I believe leap year was a Facebook originated convention. I know it came around before Facebook, but that’s you know, that’s the misdirection tactics, that’s what they want.
Frank Butler:
So yeah, I think at the end of the day, maybe we’re gonna have to go back to try the the topics of somebody picks a topic, and we just get surprised and go at it and just do that again for a little bit just because it’s fun.
Paul Harvey:
Yeah, I think it’s good to mix it up. But yeah, I think that was a fun technique.
Frank Butler:
I just find it amazing that the more we do this, though, the more people send us things that they would like us to discuss, right? It’s like it, you know, it’s not just about us discussing it to it’s about now they’re getting this out, because they think it’s something that’s relevant to their lives, or that they’ve seen happen. And they would love to have more people hear about it. And, and we love that that’s sort of, you know,
Paul Harvey:
that’s what I look for in podcast, someone talking about something that is interesting to me that maybe no one else is talking about?
Frank Butler:
Well, you know, and we talk about what we think is important to talk about, too. I mean, you know, we’ve got we’ve got some episodes out there that, you know, technically are kind of dots at the end of the day, right. I mean, truly, they were kind of duds. And we liked them, too.
Paul Harvey:
It’s not always the ones you think. Yeah.
Frank Butler:
Like, I mean, which one was it fired by artificial intelligence was just not a big popular one for us. Even though to me, I think that’s a really frightening. Yeah. pewters firing people. Like it’s cool. It’s frightening. I mean, I just, how about take take some time off you slacker didn’t hit the numbers, we sort of, you know, there’s like you said, there’s some that just I really feel like our, our quality that just didn’t get the, the listens. But you know,
Paul Harvey:
which actually leads to a question that I had. Do you have a favorite episode? And if so, which one? Is it?
Frank Butler:
Oh, man. You know, I think our interview about wasI is always a good one. No, that’s I just I think the interviews are always fun. But, you know, yeah, the boring job burnout was just interesting to just that one. Just thinking about it’s like, having a job. So doll like, what do you do? I don’t know. Yeah.
Paul Harvey:
That one definitely hits home like and in a way that most episodes do. But that one in particular. Yeah.
Frank Butler:
I think though, I’ve learned I’ve enjoyed learning about certain topics I’ve never thought about before, like Nixon, like that was all new. I’ve actually taught talk to people about that multiple times. Now. It’s like, you know, they just telling about the practice of Nixon and little basics, but I mean, that was cool to learn about diving into the the statistics when we got up to the presidential election stuff. And that’s been fun to dive into learning about canes and the 15 hour work week. You know, I learned a lot more about that. I think there’s a the learning aspect of it just as much. And actually, I will say that one of my favorite things that we did talk about was a breaking news episode on the guy who broke his back on his commute to work in his own home. That was gold. Yeah. Yeah. That I mean, that was fantastic. That was the one that introduced the Breaking News episode, our magnum opus, it was truly something we had a record that in there, because it was amazing. I don’t know what’s your favorite.
Paul Harvey:
So my personal life the one that I would actually like, enjoy the most if I were to just listen to it right now, I think was shady statistics and the status quo. And I still think we got to do more with that, like, Karen apart. The Shadle II reported statistics to you know, to back a certain perspective on things. But in terms of like that one is a little bit niche in the in a sense, not everyone wants to dive into those kinds of minute details. But I think we put the cult in culture is kind of my overall Yes, yes, that is a great one. That one had a little bit of everything as were the the the heated hoodie made its debut and
Frank Butler:
that just the hoodies in general. Sponsor
Paul Harvey:
show oh my goodness to deal with that one.
Frank Butler:
The, the cult of busyness where we were going to help you put the cult and culture it we started
Paul Harvey:
a cult. Yeah, that was the best part. We started a cult, a golden calf, golden golden calf. And, yeah, we’ve had a bad, bad run with sponsors. But we’ll get that figured out eventually.
Frank Butler:
No, I want to go back to the shady stats. So I really think there’s a lot of power in that episode that might get overlooked that people kind of get lost in the weeds because I think we end that one really solidly discussing how those shady stats and it’s not just that they’re bad or negative. It’s just improper measurement can lead to really, really bad managerial decisions.
Paul Harvey:
and not necessarily a proper measurement, just improper interpretation of based on how things actually were measured, right. And what I think so powerful about it is that it’s something anyone can do. You don’t need to have a statistics background wouldn’t hurt. But you can look up the source material for a lot of these things that you see reported in the news on any topic. And just compare like, okay, yeah, 40% did say this, but they only asked this segment of the population, and that was conveniently left out of the article. Anyone can do that kind of thing. And yeah, you realize real fast, you got to be careful who you listen to, and what you believe,
Frank Butler:
oh, it just, you know, I think the key and there’s it can lead to bad decision making by managers that they’re going to go after data that supports what they’re saying. And it could be completely flawed. And it could have huge impacts on the business’s success or on whatever, right, and there are repercussions from that. And so I just, I think that episode, really, from a importance end of it is huge. And I think something
Paul Harvey:
and to realize this isn’t like MIT rocket science graduates like twisting and doing things that no one’s going to be able to understand like, this is regular people taking numbers and selectively reporting things in a way that supports what they want to say. And you as a regular person can, can figure out what they’re doing. If you just, you know, scratch beneath the surface, it
Frank Butler:
goes back to my disdain for Facebook, and how people then latch on to this stuff and be like, you’re like, No, this is anyway. So I guess the last little bit though, is talking about technology. You’ve been asked about, you know, when you and I first started planning your your office wasn’t wired yet. You didn’t have lights in there.
Paul Harvey:
It had been wired. I had unwired it and not rewired it. Yeah. So I had, like, three extension cords running from God knows where into this room. And yeah. Yeah, just yesterday, as I mentioned, before we started recording someone in a work, Zoom meeting, said that, from what he could tell on the other side of the camera, my my home AV setup, from the beginning of the pandemic, to the present day had gone from being like the worst he’d ever seen. One of the one of the better ones, you know, not perfect, obviously, but surely do more of a soundproofing and things like that. I’ve learned a lot about stuff that I never even gave a thought to before. Like how audio gets recorded and processed and measured and listened to and all this stuff. It’s really a become a fascinating hobby. An expensive hobby. Yes. Yeah. So the question had been, what did you do to change things? He was saying, you know, I can see on my end, like, you can see you better hear you better, sound better. Look, everything’s better. But like, what did you do to make all that happen? And my response was, I spent a sum of money that my wife would kill me if she knew about. Well, not entirely, because as we know, the the webcam thing, if we found that article that cracked the code on that, the very best webcam you have is probably the device you’re listening to this podcast on, which is your smartphone. That is there is no webcam on the market that you can afford anyway. I would say there’s no webcam marketed as such an existence that can go anywhere near the but the visual acuity of your smartphone, it’s just like, it’s not even close. So yeah, get one of those apps that lets you use your phone as a webcam. And I mean, I was using a six year old iPhone until it died on me. It doesn’t have to be a brand new iPhone. Like if you got one sitting in your door, plug that puppy in, use it as a webcam. You look like a rock star.
Frank Butler:
Yeah, you know, I think we’ve certainly evolved as we’ve gotten more committed, I think because in the beginning, it was sort of a hobbyist thing. But you know, the pandemic also made us realize that we’re going to be doing this stuff for classes more and so for our jobs that made it easier to dive in. Yeah, I mean, all this stuff sort of applies to our work side of things. I mean, I do zooms I do executive training through this and all that. So
Paul Harvey:
yeah, it was a lot of synergy. That just kind of I think for a lot of jobs but especially for ours. Yeah,
Frank Butler:
exactly. I have downgraded the camera only because it was it was becoming a challenge for my iPhone, because my other one wasn’t working as well as I needed it to and whatever and getting it to sit above the monitor with the setup. I just gave up I got a cheap camera right now but I am going to probably get a better one in the near future. But for them, it’s how I roll into
Paul Harvey:
at the moment but yeah,
Frank Butler:
I mean, you know, we start with the USB mics. I like these basic USB mics that are really good. I mean, they really are good. They’re better than your, your camera mic, they’re better than your, your your, I would say blue yetis for doing like podcasts or just general kind of
Paul Harvey:
is phenomenal the quality of a microphone, you can get it for $30. I mean, they’re not professional grade, you’re not gonna sound like NPR on him. But for 30 bucks, they that they work at all is a miracle to me, and that they actually do an adequate job for a lot of things.
Frank Butler:
Yeah, I mean, they were great. I mean, truly the great, I mean, those mics were perfectly suited for it. But you know, there’s some limitations to them, especially with certain noise attributes or getting that kind of more professional type sound. I mean, now like I’m using a, what is it road pod mic, and I have a road caster Pro which is the recording device that handles all of it. But I still have a Behringer USB interface that I can plug the mic into that I do use for classes and in such not when I’m recording. And I can also use it to record playing music into and such if I choose to because it has four plugs. And if we ever do something where we have guests on site, one of our places we can jack them into this as well and, and have a really cool fun time. So I mean, none of this was at the end of the day, like super expensive. The Beringer I think was $150 Which probably it was on the lower end of the USB interfaces in terms of costs and it’s pretty great.
Paul Harvey:
That’s not gonna You could spend three times as much and I don’t think even we would really notice the difference on that now that’s that’s just a part in the chain that is important. But it’s not going to be as noticeable a difference is like a higher quality microphone or
Frank Butler:
something mics definitely I think are the biggest the road caster has been great, or that road mic has been great. Paul’s using now sure is that
Paul Harvey:
the Shure SM seven B, which is almost cliche, like after you do a podcast for long enough, you end up buying a Shure SM seven B because it’s like the microphone that successful voiceover people often use.
Frank Butler:
We’re not that successful. But you know, we’re not. We’ve got a podcast that is globally listened to but it is certainly not
Paul Harvey:
on that’s where it’s become a hobby for me like I was using also the Rode pod mic and still right next to me. I love that one. And I’ve got another Shure microphone around here somewhere. Beta 87 A. And I like them all. They’re a little bit different. But this is the SM seven B’s the newest and most expensive. So that’s the one I’m using at the moment. But I’ve already started like looking at some other ones started catching my eye, like the whatever. E 20. something or other. I have a problem.
Frank Butler:
That’s gonna say, I think the difference there is that I’m not as upgrading. I did like I like to keep it basic. And if I’m happy with it, I’ve been this has been like the setup that I’ve been happy with. Because
Paul Harvey:
you will recall Frank that up until about a year ago, I was still using a 2007 iMac. Well, that’s true. I’m not so upgrading myself. Yes, no, but this is just, it’s just become a little bit of a hobby of mine. Like, like your, your collection of guitars is sort of, I think a rough equivalent. There’s another one
Frank Butler:
coming soon collection of microphones. There’s another guitar coming. So yeah, it’s my birthday present for juniors guitar coming
Paul Harvey:
is
Frank Butler:
my birthday is coming up in March. So she’s like your next guitars a birthday present for me. I was like, fine. We’re so good with it. But no, I mean, I think it is it’s nice to have those hobbies in. And it is something that you you notice the differences, though, up to a point. Right. I think like I think we’re hitting a diminishing return at this point that going from the USB to the XLR mics certainly was a bigger step. And then from there, I think it’s the the gains have been shorter. I do think the RCP on my end has been the biggest gain. On my end. I think for you the share mic has definitely been the largest lead that we could get at that point. But
Paul Harvey:
yeah, that I I’m still kind of feeling it out to, you know, trial and error and stuff. But yeah, I think I think the way you put it is right, like further investment in that component would be for hobby reasons. All right, who wouldn’t be even then like the from the $99 rode pod mic to the $459 SM seven B. I’d be surprised if a single listener like said home sounds different. Like if you were looking for a difference you probably notice it but I can’t imagine the the average person
Frank Butler:
especially the compression of what uh, yeah, yeah,
Paul Harvey:
by the time it’s compressed and yeah, you listen to the mp3 version.
Frank Butler:
But hey,
Paul Harvey:
don’t bring those things up. Well, I mean, my ability to justify it,
Frank Butler:
I think I think though, like, if you’re recording content for class and you’re doing higher quality things, you know, it doesn’t matter. I mean, it does matter.
Paul Harvey:
It does say it’s listening in Yeah, in real time like that. It definitely makes a noticeable difference.
Frank Butler:
So anyway, so that’s sort of where it’s at. And if you guys are if there are others who are interested in podcasts, the stream deck Oh, the stream deck Oh, yeah, get a stream deck.
Paul Harvey:
Even if you’re not doing any content creation, get yourself a stream deck there. So wonder I
Frank Butler:
still haven’t got one I need to,
Paul Harvey:
but it’s one once you get one, like they make no sense until like, I just bought one I’m blind faith, like alright, all these people are seeing that no matter what you do, if you use a computer, you should get a stream deck and it’s like, Alright, I’m just gonna try what the hell yeah, I would recommend is a one way street.
Frank Butler:
I would recommend studio monitors to not you don’t have to get expensive like I have these M audio ones that I bought them years ago. Now. They’re great. I don’t have those. I definitely recommend a set of studio monitors.
Paul Harvey:
So what do you do with those? Like I mean, I know what you do with them but for like it really are you with them if I had them
Frank Butler:
gives me like when I’m listening to the podcast for example, it gives me a good clean sound right because like listen to Kanzi pick up everything, but like that’s going to give me more of a a better sort of base to listen to things but it also was really nice. Just if you play music through it, I just find them to be really good. Now I don’t know if they’re going to be better than like, what do you have to to homepop minis linked up? Yeah, I don’t know if they’ll be better than that necessarily just for like music purposes.
Paul Harvey:
I’m sure they would be but again, is it a noticeable? Yeah, that’s the question. I don’t know.
Frank Butler:
i But if you you know, if you’re at home, I would certainly recommend getting some studio monitors maybe? Or get yourself some decent cans like we are actually still using these Molana I think the headphones that’s what we bought a original 30 barges by
Paul Harvey:
z 25
Frank Butler:
I think I got them in the bundle with the with the when I bought my bike Yeah, the boom arm everything. So really are great. There’s certainly much more expensive, better ones. I think there’s a Sony set that the clothes backs that are highly recommended.
Paul Harvey:
I’ve been tempted a few times. But yeah, just again, just for like Hobby nerd reasons. Like, I can’t justify, like these things were great energy.
Frank Butler:
I think I think we did consider doing it when we were getting bleed through when you could hear the other person. And once we upgraded the mics that all went away.
Paul Harvey:
Yeah, exactly. So I forgot about that, actually. Yeah.
Frank Butler:
I think that’s why we haven’t upgraded because they are great. They’re they’re great. So yeah, I mean, I think that’s a I think we got everything covered that people have asked us about and Okay, yeah. Anything else
Paul Harvey:
break it in the stream deck foot pedal version. So I will report back. Everyone will be waiting with bated breath to hear how having a $89 thing with three buttons on it that you’ve smashed with their feet. Instead of clicking a button with the mouse how life changing that’s going to be gonna be life changing the goalposts. Yep.
Frank Butler:
I’m looking forward to hearing more on your next review. Yes, hey, thanks for listening everybody. If you’ve got any stories to share, please reach out to us busyness paradox@gmail.com Or was a contact us at Busyness Paradox comm or
Paul Harvey:
input input and input yeah Busyness Paradox
Frank Butler:
input at or you can tweet us at Busyness Paradox. We are happy to get your messages on Twitter as well. Or find us on LinkedIn. We are the Busyness Paradox on LinkedIn. We do have followers on there, it says it’s growing, we share stories on there as well. Or go to our blog, the busyness paradox.com That was just busyness paradox.com. Although you can go the business you can put if you want, I would highly recommend going to the blog because that’s where everything is. And yeah, I mean, one stop
Paul Harvey:
shop. Yeah,
Frank Butler:
it’s one stop shopping
Paul Harvey:
down except for leaving reviews. Gotta go to the Apple podcasts site to do that,
Frank Butler:
or your podcast app of choice if you have review functionality if you’re using Spotify or Amazon or whatever. Yeah,
Paul Harvey:
good point is some of the some of the others do as well, you know,
Frank Butler:
rate us review us We appreciate it. It’s more about helping us continue to do what we do if you’re liking it, let us know. And and let others know about it. That’s that’s the big thing is tell others to give it a listen. I mean, we want to we want to be a source of information and entertainment for everybody. But mainly like really trying to make an impact on people’s work lives in that is sort of a double entendre in its own right. You know, it’s like work life. Work and Life. Right.
Paul Harvey:
I see what you’re saying there. Yeah.
Frank Butler:
Hey, you see what I’m it’s kind
Paul Harvey:
of took me a minute to come around there. Hang her. I’m with you. Yeah, it’s it’s about the work life and buying what you’re selling.
Frank Butler:
But it’s not just about work life. It’s about work and life. So,
Paul Harvey:
right. Yeah, we’re gonna get nabbed for like copyright infringement because Adam Grant, University of Pennsylvania has that podcast I think is called Work/Life
Frank Butler:
Yeah. We’re not copying the the, the podcast, we’re just you know, using a term idea. I guarantee he couldn’t even sue for that because I bet he can’t turn our work life. I know I’m kidding. But hey, you know, Adam would love to have you on the show. So come on.
Paul Harvey:
Yep. If you’re upset about us stealing your term…come at us, bro.
Frank Butler:
We’ll be happy to go get on your show and debate or that. Alright, thanks for listening everybody books.
Paul Harvey:
Good day. Good day. Busyness Paradox is distributed by Paul Harvey and Frank Butler. Our theme music is adapted from “It’s Business Time” by Jemaine Clements and Bret McKenzie. Our production manager is Justin Wuntaek. We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode, and we’d love to hear from you. Please send any questions, comments or ideas for future episode topics to input@busynessparadox.com or find us on Twitter. Also, be sure to visit our website, busynessparadox.com to read our blog posts and for links to the articles and other resources mentioned in today’s show. Finally, please take a moment to rate and follow or subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Google podcasts or wherever the heck you get your podcasts