Apr 11, 2022
How to become a trusted mentor for top entrepreneurs and real estate professionals in the world?
Greg Dickerson has banked on his practical experiences to build and sell companies and invest in real estate, putting it all together in his company, Dickerson International, which offers training, education, and coaching for many renowned investors and entrepreneurs globally. What makes everything that he’s done impressive is that he did it even without a college degree.
In today’s episode, he will be talking about the alternative ways to learn aside from college education and how he used such ways to become one of the top mentors in the realm of real estate and entrepreneurship.
[00:01 - 03:05] Opening Segment
- Greg Dickerson chose to go to the Navy instead of college
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- Here’s the reason
- Greg shares the story of how he built and exited a business
[03:06 - 08:04] From Employee to Entrepreneur
- Here’s how Greg shifted his mindset from employee to entrepreneur
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- The difference between a manager and a leader
- This is the “hack” that Greg has tried to build his company
- Greg was able to convince the best people to work with him
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- This is his secret
[08:05 - 17:02] Real Estate Development
- Are you an aspiring real estate developer?
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- Greg has some advice for you
- This is how Greg and his team find opportunities in the market
- These are the current risks in real estate development that investors should consider
[17:03 - 17:44] Closing Segment
- Reach out to Greg
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- Links below
- Final words
Tweetable Quotes
“The numbers are very important. If you don't know your numbers, you don't know your business.” - Greg Dickerson
“People really respond to the opportunity to create something that they spent their entire life doing, but never had a chance to build on their own.” - Greg Dickerson
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Email greg@gregdickerson.com to connect with Greg or follow him on LinkedIn. Visit Dickerson International to get access to coaching, education, and training for entrepreneurs and real estate investors.
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I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.
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Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:
Greg Dickerson 00:00
There are specific things that that individual is brought on board to do, and you measure that performance that all goes back to leading, delegating, motivating, managing employees correctly, providing clear direction, in no uncertain terms exactly what you expect. And when holding people accountable to the goals, measuring performance, and behavior, not personal, you know, so it's never measuring the person or you know, making things personal. It's always about the business. It's always about the performance, always about the behavior. And you set very specific goals, and you track those goals. And you help people hold themselves accountable to those goals, and you track your performance, and then they can share in the upside. So that's basically how that evolved and how that works.
Intro 00:39
Welcome to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate Show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we will teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.
Sam Wilson 00:42
Greg Dickerson is a serial entrepreneur. He's a real estate developer. He's a coach, and also a mentor. Greg, welcome to the show.
Greg Dickerson 00:58
Hey, thanks for having me.
Sam Wilson 00:59
Hey, the pleasure is mine. Three questions I ask every guest who comes on the show. In 90 seconds or less, can you tell me where did you start? Where are you now? How did you get there?
Greg Dickerson 01:06
From a business standpoint or geography?
Sam Wilson 01:08
It's your 90 seconds.
Greg Dickerson 01:10
So I went in the Navy right out of high school, did not go to college, did four years in the Navy, did retail. And when I got out of the Navy, I worked in corporate restaurant industry for a little while for several years. So the Navy was ‘85, ‘89. And then always had a side business while I was working in restaurants doing construction, little odd jobs, building decks, fences, handyman work, whatever. In 1997, I moved to the Outer Banks of North Carolina, that's where flight originated. That's when the Wright brothers took off and Kill Devil Hills, North Carolina moved there in 1997. To open a restaurant, I got into construction instead, started a little remodeling handyman company. My first year did about 250,000 in sales. Seven years later, we were doing $30 million dollars, we were the largest, one of the largest builder developers there. I sold that company, started 12 other companies along the way, during that seven year time period, built them up, sold them off. And what I did was I reinvested all the profits into other development deals and just grew and scaled my development business, from single family residential to land to mixed-use commercial and on and on. So that's what I've been doing since 1997. Building and scaling, growing companies, starting building scaling, growing and exiting companies, doing real estate development deals, doing value add deals, and then coaching now, coaching and mentoring people all over the country, teaching them how to do the same thing.
Sam Wilson 02:24
What were some of the skills or some of the things you had to learn going from swinging a hammer to growing a business? Because that's a big mindset shift for a lot of people. And that's a hard bridge for some people to cross. How did you do that?
Greg Dickerson 02:37
Yeah, it is. And I literally started, just me my truck and my tools, you know, no employees, and then I hired another employee, then another one, and then just kind of grew and scaled from there. So yeah, very fortunate, I learned business and accounting in the military with retail. So I had some classes on doing the numbers. So the numbers are very important. You know, if you don't know your numbers, you don't know your business. So you got to know the numbers, then I got some really great training in the restaurant industry. So I learned how to lead, delegate, motivate. And I learned how to again, it was you know, restaurants are all about numbers squeezing a nickel out of a penny. So every dollar counts in the restaurant industry. That transfers well into real estate, and especially into development. And then that whole leadership thing, learning the difference between a manager and a leader, you have to know how to manage, but you also need to know how to lead, you need to know how to delegate, and you need to know how to recruit, hire, train, lead, delegate, motivate, put the right people in the right seats as you're growing an organization. And you have to be able to let go of that control and that ego and understand that none of us are as smart as all of us. And that there are better, smarter people, people out there. And then you and of course, even though I'm not formally classically educated, you know, in the college sense, I'm very self-educated. So I poured into myself, my entire career, I still do now every single day, you know, back in the day when it was cassette tapes, and then the CDs and then the 80 GB iPod, which I still have my 80 GB iPod, no music, none. It was all personal professional development stuff, business stuff. That's all I listened to. Now, of course, I'll play some music here and there. And I love music. I was a musician in high school. But you know, when it comes to what I spend my time on when I have spare time, that's making myself better, smarter, more capable in some way. So that's really the key. And then as you grow, what I did was I found people's I've never built a house before I've built houses. So what I did was I went and hired the best people from the best company that I wanted to be, come work with me, and build my organization with me. And for me, instead of trying to do it myself, I have no ego. I was never threatened by anybody who was better and smarter and more experienced than me. I brought them on my team, and I turned them loose to do their job. So that's how it works.
Sam Wilson 04:42
That's an intriguing kind of hack that you mentioned there. And even not having an ego. How do you convince someone to come work for you when they already have more skills, you know, they've been in the business longer. What's the bait you use to say hey, come work with me as opposed to staying where you are because you…
Greg Dickerson 05:00
You know, first of all, it's having a big vision and as being able to articulate that vision in a way that inspires others, so you inspire results out of others. Leaders inspire, right. And we're seeing a real-life example of that right now playing out on the world stage. So leaders inspire results out of others. So what I do is I created a vision of what I wanted to create, I wanted to create this building and development company, it was on the leading edge of technology that gave back to the community that provided a positive work environment for everybody. And the upside potential for that individual was I live in it, we were going to share profits, you know, those types of things. So basically, for the individuals that I was looking for, it was like, you had the ability to come, build a company the way you think it needed to be done to be an entrepreneur, to be self-employed under the umbrella of a corporation, so that you didn't have to take the risk and worry about the downside, but you got to share in all of the upside. So you know, what you find with a lot of people is, you know, a lot of people aren't satisfied or happy where they are, because they can't contribute. They can't write, have their ideas come to life, they're not allowed to do things outside the corporate box, and you know, checking the boxes that they're in. So I just looked for people that wanted a chance to build something special and unique. And not only that but just let them do it, let them make mistakes, let them do things, and build a company the way that they thought it should be done. And you know, people really respond to the opportunity to create something that they spent their entire life doing, but never had a chance to build on their own.
Sam Wilson 06:27
Right, but how do you structure that in such a way that you're not giving away the farm? You know, preemptively I mean, you're gonna bring somebody on and yet, while you know that may be performing in their current role, maybe they come and work for you and completely flounder? How do you protect for that downside risk for you as the one bringing them on and giving up a slice of equity?
Greg Dickerson 06:45
Well, you know, you're always taking a risk on people. But you know, ideally, you try to discern through the process, whether they're competent or not, you're gonna know based on their track record, where they come from, and things like that, in terms of talking to them, and how they handle things, how they deal with people and situations. But at the end of the day, everybody that ever came to work with me, it was a trial basis, and you started upfront with, “Hey, this is a trial basis, this may or may not be a good fit for you, may or may not be a good fit for us, but we're gonna try it, we're gonna see what happens.” And then there's performance standards and benchmarks, right? So now there are specific things that individual is brought on board to do. And you measure that performance that all goes back to leading, delegating, motivating, managing employees correctly, providing clear direction, in no uncertain terms, exactly what you expect. And when holding people accountable to the goals, measuring performance, and behavior, not personal, you know, so it's never measuring the person or you know, making things personal. It's always about the business. It's always about the performance, always about the behavior. And you set very specific goals, and you track those goals. And you help people hold themselves accountable to those goals, and you track your performance, and then they can share in the upside. So that's basically how that evolved and how that works.
Sam Wilson 07:53
Got it. That's really intriguing. You're now a full-time developer, you've done projects all across the southeast. What does that mean for you? And if someone were to get into development today, what are some things you're looking at?
Greg Dickerson 08:05
So number one, you have to well, so you're talking about projects, what type of projects to get into right now. So at the moment, I'm really focused on land, and there's been different points in my career where I focused on different things. And it really depends on what the individual's business model is, what their needs are, where they are, financially, all those different things. So me personally, I started out doing spec houses, you know, that was just the world I was in, I was flipping land, and I was doing spec houses and then you know, then I started doing land development, then I start doing commercial mixed-use, you know, so it kind of scaled from there. So it really depends on the individual, their skills, or abilities or background, you know, what their net worth looks like, the ability to raise capital, all of those things, everything is different for everybody. And then every market’s different. So every market has different needs, you know, you're in Memphis, you know, that area, you know, maybe you need multifamily, maybe you need some condo buildings, maybe you need you know, an industrial park. So every area, every market, everything is different. And I've developed all those so you know, self-storage and the whole nine yards. So, for me as an opportunistic developer, you know, it's more of what is the opportunity in the markets, and I'm looking at what opportunities come my way. And you know, how can I make the best use of those, and I do a lot of adaptive reuse, where I take existing buildings and turn them into something else. I really love that that's one of my favorite things to do, especially older buildings and the areas that can be you know, higher, better use of something else. So there really is no best thing. But obviously, the number one thing everybody needs. And we've seen it through the pandemic. And you know, during an economic crisis, everybody needs a roof over their head, everybody's got to put right now gas in their tank, you got to buy food, you have to go to the doctor, you know, you have put clothes on your back. So when you look at those core things that you need to survive, you know, from a developer, I'm going to be a real estate developer, real estate investor. I want to own the things that aren't ever going away. The things that can't be outsourced can't be put fully online, that people need to set foot through the door in order to receive that service or that product. So if you look at those types of things, they're never going to go away from a funnel, physical asset standpoint, so you got to look at each market, you know, what are the needs of those markets? And then what are the trends? What are the emerging areas, you know, and those types of things. And more importantly than that, where's the population going? So you want to do things in an area where the population is increasing because if you have an increasing population, all of the other fundamentals around development thesis or investment thesis are going to be there.
Sam Wilson 10:20
Right. Yeah, I absolutely get that. How do you find opportunities today? Is the stuff that's just coming to you? Are you guys actively going out and trying to get in front of development, you know, the path of progress and saying, okay, you know, this is maybe we should start buying land, what's that look like?
Greg Dickerson 10:35
So in this day and age, I've got a huge network, where I'm very well known. So projects just land in my lap every day. And if it's something I'm interested in, I'll pursue it. If not, I've got a big network of clients that I'm mentoring all over the country that are looking for opportunities, and I will pass it along to them, depending on what it is. But yeah, I get deals coming across my desk every single day for not only real estate development, but for companies. So I buy companies, build them up, you know, that type of thing. So I get all kinds of opportunities. Every day, when I first started out, I had to farm, I had to go build relationships, I had to contact property owners directly to contact brokers, I had to do all of that. When I first started out, and especially when I was building and developing infill development spec houses, I would go farm my market, and I would contact you know, all the property owners in the area that owned land that was vacant, ready to build on. And I had a system for doing that. And of course, all the real estate brokers in the area knew that I was a buyer. And you know, if they had anything, they would come to me first. So it's kind of building that reputation is really the best way to do it.
Sam Wilson 11:33
Yep. I love that when it comes to mentorship, which is one of the things that, I know, you're known for. Do you bring on people that have no development experience or do you recommend they go out and get experienced before they come and start chatting with you?
Greg Dickerson 11:46
Now I've got a couple of clients right now I, have zero development experience. One of them is a former NFL player, he actually holds the world record for the longest kickoff run back in a Super Bowl, and for a touchdown. And yeah, he's never been a developer, never invested in real estate. And I'm teaching him how to build a real estate development company. He's got his first project going right now, it's a multifamily, ground-up multifamily, you know, 54 units, I think it's gonna be on a family property. So this is his first foray into development. I've got another guy that was a house flipper, that, you know, I'm helping him bring his first project out of the ground. So 129 units, $25, million, multifamily ground-up project, never done it before. I've got a dentist who has a construction license, and he builds dental practices and kind of coaches and mentors, people and builds, you know, their offices out. But he does that as a business model. As a general contractor, I'm teaching him how to be a developer, and he's doing a mixed-use development, first time he's ever done that land development project mixed-use. And of course, he's going to do the vertical as well. So yeah, it's kind of runs the gamut.
Sam Wilson 12:47
I love that. What are some risks you're seeing right now, just considering the economic times we're in maybe you know, what's going on the world stage? I mean, you see lots of just kind of unknowns, not that we ever have much certainty in this life. But you know, it is kind of a unique time. What are some risks you're seeing in development in general right now?
Greg Dickerson 13:07
Yeah. So costs obviously are volatile right now and all over the map. So it's really difficult to nail costs on a project just because of all the things we're dealing with. And then interest rate is going to become risk, you know, here soon, right now varying a little bit, but kind of what the Fed does that their meetings in terms of their interest rate policy for the year, that's going to affect costs there. But that's kind of normal in the development business, you know what it is going into it, you know, what's going to be coming out of it. So you can mitigate that the biggest risk right now is construction costs, that's something you just can't account for. And you just don't know where that's going to be based on when you start putting on the project. Some of these projects or multi-year projects depend on the size and the scope of it, you just don't know where things are going to be. But I've seen it before. And I've been through it before cos they're always doing this, this is very unique in the times that we're in now. But eventually, it will come back around and costs will, you know, settle in and it'll be more predictable again in the future. But you can't nail a cost right now.
Sam Wilson 14:01
Right, outside of costs, I mean, one of the things we saw in the financial crisis was building and development just came to a screeching halt. At least that's what my memory of it was. I was not a developer, then I'm not one now. Just remember seeing lots and lots of projects that just stalled out.
Greg Dickerson 14:15
Yeah. 2008, 2009.
Sam Wilson 14:17
Yeah. So talk to us about then and how maybe is now different, or is that a potential yet again?
Greg Dickerson 14:23
Now, very different right now. So what happened back then was too much supply. So too much development going on? And then the banking crisis happened, which, you know, eliminated the ability to borrow money for a lot of people. So, you know, that was kind of a cascading domino effect there but the biggest thing was overbuilding it just overbuilt. Everybody was a developer, everybody was able to get money to do projects. You know, we were just outpacing demand. This time, you know, there's a big demand out there and very little inventory in most markets for anything and everything. I mean, everything is undersupplied right now. So very unique time in the market from a demand-supply side standpoint and you know, inventory For residential, mostly some commercial assets. Now there's other commercial assets that are still oversupplied, obviously, retail office, all of the things that took a hit during, you know, the pandemic. But you know, housing is still undersupplied in most areas. And the demand that's out there, from a development standpoint cannot be built through over the next 10 years, because we don't have enough labor. That's the other risk really is in terms of costs and interest rates is the time cycle of a project. You can't nail that either, because there's not enough labor out there to get things done. So things are taking almost twice as long as they did even three or four years ago.
Sam Wilson 15:33
How are people overcoming the labor shortage? What are some ways that you're seeing to creatively solve that problem?
Greg Dickerson 15:40
You know, there really isn't because there just aren't enough people entering the trades, that's your biggest problem. And what's happening is a lot of the guys have been in the trades for 20, 30 years, they're retiring, and there's nobody coming up behind them at scales. There's a number obviously, but not enough to replace and grow the industry. So there's, you know, people are trying trade, school stuff, bonuses incentives, but you know, people just don't want to go into that industry. People are going into other industries now with tech and with the, all the different things that we have, and with the online world that we live in, and with online trading cryptocurrencies, many people are quitting their jobs, and they're doing these other things instead. So you know, there really isn't anything creatively being done at a scale that can be done, because there's just such a lack of interest in going into the fields, you know, where a lot of labor comes from is from people immigrating into the country, and you know, doing those jobs. And that's one solution that can be provided. There's a lot of people outside this country that want to come in and want to do these jobs that are tradesmen from other countries. So that's one way to help fill the gaps. But obviously, you know, we don't have the systems to handle that at scale in the country right now.
Sam Wilson 16:42
Right. That's absolutely intriguing. Greg, thanks for taking the time today to really break down your kind of history of how you started out how you grew so many companies, and just kind of your general mindset, as well as sharing some nuggets on you know, what's going on the market now and how it's different than the financial crisis as well as you know how to get started in development. So this was absolutely fantastic. Thank you for your time today. If our listeners want to get in touch with you or learn more about you what is the best way to do that?
Greg Dickerson 17:06
Yeah. GregDickerson.com all my social links are there. I have a YouTube channel with lots of videos on real estate development and investing and all kinds of other things. So GregDickerson.com.
Sam Wilson 17:16
Thank you, Greg. Have a great day.
Greg Dickerson 17:18
You as well.
Sam Wilson 17:19
Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate Podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whatever platform it is you use to listen, if you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories so appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.