Episode 158

How To Turn Your Podcast Into a Business | Tim Reid

Tim Reid, an international coach and speaker, takes on the challenge of creating a successful podcast to build audience and authority and discovers the surprising irony that making podcasting a hobby unlocks the time, money, and energy needed to achieve success.

"If you're into podcasting, make podcasting your hobby. What I mean by that, Johnny, is when something's a hobby, you'll find the time, you'll find the money, you'll find the resources, you'll find the energy, you'll put it in your diary, you'll look forward to the next time it comes around because it's a hobby."

Tim Reid is the host of the Small Business Big Marketing Podcast and the author of 'The Boomerang Effect'. He is a renowned business speaker who has interviewed over 595 successful business owners about their business journey and the role of marketing.

Tim Reid was an aspiring radio personality and when he was given the opportunity to use a fancy studio he seized it, creating the Small Business Big Marketing Podcast and becoming Australia's first business podcast. As the podcast gained traction, Tim realized podcasting was a powerful tool for creating brand awareness and he started to reap the rewards of his hard work. Podcasting has been his hobby and business for the past 13 years and he is passionate about helping other podcasters reach their dreams. By combining entertainment and education, Tim Reid has created a successful podcast and encourages other podcasters to respect the ads that support their shows.

In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. How to make podcasting a business and why it is an amazing format for business owners.

2. How to monetize a podcast by creating your own products or using third-party sponsors.

3. How to create compelling content that educates and entertains listeners.

Resources:

The Small Business Big Marketing podcast

Check out his Website

Give him a call with a question for his show at +61 480 015 150 and let him know what marketing is working for you. He may play it in an upcoming episode.

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

Alex Sanfilippo | How to use podcasts to create business success

Mark Asquith | How to have a full time career in podcasting and why you shouldn't learn marketing from a podcaster

Connect with me: 

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/johnaball

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/johnaball

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/podfluence/id1484941406

Join me for the Podfluence Weekly newsletter on LinkedIn, Medium or Beehive to get articles and show updates every week(ish).

You are warmly invited to join other coaching & speaking professionals who are building their authority through podcasting in the Podfluencers Facebook Group and get your free download of How to build authority with podcasts

Did you learn anything new or useful? If you did, then the best way to show your appreciation is by sharing the show with your online network. Tag me and I'll give you a shout-out on an upcoming episode. Leave a review and I'll read it out on the show.

Of course, if you REALLY liked it, you're welcome to support the show financially too using this link Support the show (https://speakinginfluence.supercast.tech/)

Transcript
John Ball:

This is Podfluence the podcast that helps business coaches and speakers

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to grow your business through podcasts.

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My name is John Ball and my mission is to help you as a business coach or

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speaker to build professional influence and grow your following with podcasts

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so you can have a thriving business.

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In this episode, we'll be looking at how you can make a podcast

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into a successful business.

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If you're a business coach or speaker, you should not only be appearing on

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podcasts, but at some point you should at least start to think about having a

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show of your own to take your opportunity and your following to a new level.

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My guest on this episode is Tim Reid, the host of the Small Business Big Marketing

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podcast, and Tim started podcasting long before most of us had ever even

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heard of podcasts, and certainly before they were ever widely listened to.

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Yet he managed to make a business out of his show, which is still

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going strong, and he's here to show you how you can do the same.

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Tim brings a lot of himself to the show and has that Aussie cheekiness that many

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of us love, and he's a real fan of dad jokes and with his previous broadcasting

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experience, he gets the key distinctions between radio broadcasting and podcasting.

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Find out in this episode what led Tim to start a podcast 13 years ago

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when hardly anyone else was doing it, and which three questions you must

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be able to answer in order to create a good outcome-based podcast show.

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I got introduced to Tim by someone he barely knew, and yet

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I was as warmly welcomed by him as I would expect from someone

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welcoming an old, long lost friend.

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I immediately liked Tim's disarming style and his directness and how he

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approaches podcasting and marketing.

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He says, make it your hobby, make it something you do for fun rather

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than because you feel you have to, and your marketing and your messaging

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will never be the same again.

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So I invite you now to enjoy this episode of Podfluence

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Well, welcome to the show, and I am a lucky man today because in my

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work I get to speak to people who do an amazing job of building podcasts

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and building businesses, and sharing great information with people.

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So I get to learn at the same time as you do too.

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And I am in great company today because I'm getting to

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listen and speak with somebody.

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I don't know how I haven't come into contact with before.

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He is the host of small business, big marketing podcast, as well as

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being the author of many books, the Great Business Speaker.

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I've been listening to the show and I'm kind thinking, you know,

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I even know some of his friends.

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I know so many Australian marketers.

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How did I never come into contact with him before?

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Let me welcome to the show, Tim reid.

Tim Reid:

Good day, Johnny, and good day fellow podcasters and Future podcasters.

Tim Reid:

May we offer you some value in the coming, however long.

John Ball:

It is great to have be speaking with you and I've really been

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enjoying listening to your show and would honestly recommend anybody, a small

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business owner or interested in marketing in any way to go and check it out.

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I even took a very important message with me today from listening to your show

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about, you said about making marketing a hobby to make it fun for yourself,

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I think, and that's, that's the kind.

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Little bit of gold that you can just keep with.

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It's like, yeah, make it fun.

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Make it something you want, you want to do rather than something.

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Well make, make

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podcasting your hobby.

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If you, if you're into podcasting, you know, like make, make podcasting hobby.

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What I mean by that, Johnny, is when something's a hobby you'll find the

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time, you'll find the money, you'll find the resources, you'll find the

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energy, you'll put it in your diary.

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You'll look forward to the next time it comes around because it's a hobby.

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And, you know, on, on the small business big marketing podcast, having interviewed,

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as of today, 595 successful business owners about their business journey and

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about what role marketing has played.

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So many of them talk about marketing as a hobby.

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They don't necessarily use that word, but I sort of coined it and I love I love

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the fact that we can make parts of our business a hobby if they're enjoyable.

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And, podcasting is certainly one of those things that is a lot

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of fun and should be enjoyable.

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Well,

John Ball:

I definitely think that, and I'm gonna be listening to a

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lot more episodes of your show.

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I'm very happy that I've been introduced to it.

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Good ideas.

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I've al already found so much value in there.

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And there will be links to the, to your show and to your site and to all the

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things that we're gonna talk about today that we might mention in the show notes.

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for anyone who wants to go and check that out now or later on, because certainly

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you'll want to, after you've heard more of our conversation today, you have

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done podcasting for a fair old while.

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Yeah, yeah,

Tim Reid:

yeah.

Tim Reid:

Well, I started 13 years ago, so, the Small Business Big Marketing podcast

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is 13 years old, come June, 2022.

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And probably the first business podcast in Australia.

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And you know, when I first came across them, Johnny, and, and I still hold this

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excitement as someone who represents small businesses in Australia and sorts

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and like to think that I'm in service to them and a bit of a spokesperson for them.

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Podcasting is amazing because not only can you, can us as listeners find

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a, a piece of audio somewhere on the internet about a topic that we have

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a hundred percent interest in that we can listen for free on demand.

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I think that's amazing.

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On the other side of that coin, as a business owner, you can now have your

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own show, and by that I mean a podcast.

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You can also have your own TV show if you're into YouTube, and you can have your

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own book if you're into self-publishing.

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Podcasting allows us to have our own radio show.

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And, and I find that incredible.

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You know, that's what's, that's a big, big game changer.

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And that occurred to me 13 years ago and it's still, I still

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get excited about it today,

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but there have been a lot of changes in podcasting

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even just in the last couple of years since I started this show.

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And so I, I wonder, did, did you really see the potential early on?

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Or did you think this is fun and I'm just gonna do this?

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Cause it's a nice way to be able to talk about stuff.

Tim Reid:

A hundred percent.

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I thought it was fun.

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I, I was given a great opportunity of using a really fancy radio

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studio in Melbourne, Australia many years ago, which I just took up.

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I, I was like, I created the problem.

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I went to a friend who was working in radio and I always secretly wanted to be

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on radio and just, I had subsequently, as a result of my podcasting, I have been

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on, on radio now, but back then I hadn't.

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So I, I created this problem where a mate of mine was in radio.

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I said I'd discovered podcasting.

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He said, anytime you want to use this particular studio, you can.

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And I took that eye up.

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Then I'm like, wow, what do I do ? What am I gonna do with it?

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And rang a mate and said, Hey, why don't we start a marketing podcast?

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And.

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and we had a lot of fun with it, and we started to get really good feedback.

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Not not straight away.

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And that's something you need to understand about any content creation.

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You're not gonna get feedback straight away, so, right.

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Don't look at the scoreboard, don't look to see who's liking

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it, sharing it, commenting on it.

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Just do, just create great content.

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But over time, I started to realize that, wow, this thing is getting traction.

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I'm getting lovely listener reviews on iTunes.

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I'm getting lovely emails from listeners, I'm being asked to speak at conferences.

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There were, there was a lot of things happening as a direct line between

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starting a podcast and, and, and other opportunities coming my way.

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I certainly didn't see the purple patch that we are in now, 13 years later

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where podcasting has gone bananas.

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Every man and his dog thinks they need to get one.

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Maybe they do, but you need to have a good reason.

John Ball:

I think you make an important point.

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I think a lot of people do this not just with podcasts, but with content

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marketing in general of doing something and then, oh, it hasn't gone viral, so

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it hasn't worked, or it hasn't got tons of response right away, but not realizing

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that you have to stay consistent with these things and keep going, especially

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with podcasting because it is, is I think, a very long game kind of.

Tim Reid:

Yeah, it is and, and, and like if, if you expect in podcasting is

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very good at creating brand awareness, whether it be personal brand awareness

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or awareness around your business or products or services that you sell.

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It's very, it's a very good awareness raising tool.

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It's not an awesome direct response tool necessarily because

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if you think about where are we consuming podcasts, we are driving.

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We are jogging, we're in the gym, we're in bed, we are walking the dog.

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And as a result, you don't really have the ability to immediately respond,

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whereas video, you are because you are leading into a screen and you can do that.

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But if you sort of go in understanding what do you want to get from

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creating a podcast and you set those expectations, reasonable expectations,

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then you're not gonna be disappointed.

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And you may well be quite happy with what comes from a podcast because it can be.

John Ball:

It, it definitely can be.

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And, and which, I mean, there was a chain of events that led to you starting

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your show and then kind of a fun thing.

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But if things hadn't happened that way, do you think you would've

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ended up coming to podcasts anyway?

Tim Reid:

I think I would've.

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I, I love the audio format.

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I, I love audio.

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I just think it's so personal.

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And it's not heavy lifting.

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You know, I'm not a technical person at.

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I look at video and I think there's a lot of heavy lifting in video.

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And I don't mean physically, I mean cameras and stuff, but they're not that

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heavy anymore cause they're phones.

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But the files are big.

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You've gotta go through and watch it all and there's lots of editing and

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all that kind of stuff to be done.

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And because you, you can be seen, then there is a probably a

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greater need to edit some things.

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Whereas I, I think with podcasting it's, it's just lighter and it's easier

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and the audio format is so consumable.

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That's just, that's being proven now with, you know, the, the advertising revenues

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from podcasts are expected to double off a fairly big base in the next two years.

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And it's just gonna keep going that way.

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So, yeah it's a wonderful, wonderful format.

John Ball:

Yeah.

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If you were able to go back in time and give yourself some advice as a starting

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podcaster, what would that advice?

Tim Reid:

Uh, I would probably say from a monetizing point of view, and everyone's

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like, how do you monetize a podcast?

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Back then I remember thinking, I remember ringing a very considered

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colleague of mine when I started the small business big marketing show, and

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I said, Dave, I'm starting a podcast.

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I'm gonna get some sponsorship.

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I'm gonna make a million dollars and everything's gonna be amazing.

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and he said to me, you might wanna build an audience first.

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And I thought, oh, that's, that's a good, that's good advice.

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So the first step of that was to just sit back.

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And this was months into having a podcast.

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So I sat back after that and just focused on building an audience and not chasing

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sponsors if I were to do it again.

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And there are, there are a number of ways of monetizing podcasts through,

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you know, third party sponsorship, which I do, which I've been doing for

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the last, almost, almost 13 years.

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But the what I probably would do is have my own products.

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I would create a suite of, whether it be online courses if I'd, you know, if

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you had an age, a marketing agency in my case, which I didn't, I would sell my own

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stuff because then it's a hundred percent margin, then you are in complete control.

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Then you're not answerable to a third party sponsor.

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And that would seem to be a very, very good idea.

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Having said that, I've had wonderful success with third party sponsors

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from American Express Dell yellow Pages some really big brands,

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but I've chosen them selectively.

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I've chosen them.

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Yeah, because the brands are important to my listeners, but also the people

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behind those brands are easy to work with.

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And as a one-man show, as a one man podcaster, I just wanna work with good.

John Ball:

Yeah, and, and I guess you can have both, right?

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You can market your own stuff and have some third party.

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Of course, you don't wanna go too heavy on the ads, especially

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if you are a new podcast host.

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That, that, uh,

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you, you could have both you, you could have both.

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And you do wanna make sure that you get the weight weighting, right.

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As a podcast consumer and I consume a lot of podcasts as well as create a podcast.

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I get that ads are annoying and I myself find myself doing the little

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10, 15 seconds skip forward, you know, getting away from the ads too.

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But, but we, we've, we have to, and I don't, I mean, this is a bit of a soapbox

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rant that I'm about to get on, but the reality is as podcasters particularly a

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podcaster for me, podcasting is an end.

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It isn't a means to an end.

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Podcasting is my business.

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Sure.

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It creates other revenue stream.

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But I don't have a marketing agency that I'm trying to drive business to.

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I'm not a marketing coach that I'm trying to drive business to.

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I wanna make a living from podcasting.

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And so I'd love people to respect the ads more on podcasts, particularly

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bespoke podcasts, not the podcasts that are repurposed radio shows.

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They've got their own budgets and all that.

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That, but US Independent podcast is we do heavily rely on the kindness and

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the support of big brands and little brands, anyone who wants to sponsor us.

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So yeah, gotta kind of be respectful of that.

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And I try not to skip forward.

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. John Ball: Yeah, me too.

Tim Reid:

I mean, I think I do find some of the shows that I listen to.

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I like yourself, I listen to a lot of shows.

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They tend to, if they are selective with the ads that they choose,

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it tends to be stuff you think

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oh, well that's interesting to hear about at.

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Oh, sometimes one of the things I think is very clever, they'll have ads for their

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own show, for upcoming episodes or for older episodes or collections of episodes

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that you can go and check out and things.

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So I think, I just think it makes sense if you are a business owner who

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is doing a podcast as part of your professional ecosystem, not just as

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your business, but as part of that.

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Of course it makes sense to promote your own stuff and your own products

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and services because you are creating and developing that relationship

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with every show that's you make.

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That's right.

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Yeah.

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And, and I think too, if you are, if you are gonna start a podcast and you

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are gonna do ads, whether it be for your own stuff or for a third party

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brand certainly in my experience, the most effective ads are live

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reads where the host reads the ads.

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never take pre-recorded ads like radio stations do, and just

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drop them into your podcast.

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It sounds too much like radio and people don't want podcasts to sound like radio.

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And if you are gonna do live reads as a podcaster, try and put some, just

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again, put your own personality into it.

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You know, don't try and put on your marketing voice and this, this

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program is brought to you by Dell.

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You know, and it's like, don't, don't do that.

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Just, just.

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Have some fun.

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Find an emotional entry point into the brand that's sponsoring your

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podcast and talk about it in a human.

Tim Reid:

Yeah,

John Ball:

I, I was listening not that long ago to I dunno if you've

John Ball:

heard of Tracy Hazard, but she has the binge-worthy podcast and so she's

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looking at what makes shows binge worthy.

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And one of the things that she was talking, I think this might have been

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in her marketing podcast though was that they actually done some research into

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podcast ads and what was most effective.

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and they said nearly, it is always host red ads.

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It's always the host read ads and the natural voice ads that are the most

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effective because that is the voice that that audience is already trusting.

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Yeah.

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And so of course it makes a, it makes huge difference.

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Makes that in Johnny about

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it.

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You know, get a brief from your sponsors, understand the brands or whatever they

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wanted, they want you to say, and then find stories from your own experience.

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Bring to life those brands.

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So for example, and he's not doing it well, although he's the

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biggest podcaster in the world.

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Joe Rogan reads ads, right?

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He does live reads and, and I've been listening a lot to Joe lately,

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and he's been mentioning Active Greens or some health powder, right?

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He's reading a script.

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Yes.

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And it's very, it's very obvious now, Joe's a health fanatic.

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Joe takes athletic greens.

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Surely he could find a, Of he's own volition.

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That includes athletic greens, and just tell that as opposed to reading some

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script written by the advertising agency.

John Ball:

It, it would make sense.

John Ball:

And I know he is like one of the top shows in the world and I have listened

John Ball:

to him before, but it's definitely not one of my favorite podcasters,

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, although he is always interesting.

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He's always interesting to hear.

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What he definitely is is polarizing.

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And I guess it's more the guest choices that he has that I

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don't always enjoy tuning into.

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So, you know, I used to listen to it and now it's not really my

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scene, but I particularly like people like Jordan Harbinger and hi.

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I still listen to some Tim Ferriss stuff as well, you know, so I do listen to

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some of the big ones, but I often find it more interesting listening to some

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of the lesser known podcasters who don't have the big reps to live up to and

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are doing maybe more interesting things and trying some different stuff out.

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Cause.

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There is opportunity for innovation in podcasting and and I think it's

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necessary because I dunno about you, but, and when, if you listen to a

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lot of shows, you probably do come across this of, a lot of people do the

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same standard formula for every show.

John Ball:

Yes.

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And and if, you know, you do guesting as well as I do, I'm sure.

John Ball:

And as you are now, Very often you'll start a show with the whole sort of

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potted life history and you may even find yourself, it's like I'm a bit bored

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of telling this story now, because it's like every other show I go on is asking

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me for this little mini history of my life and my career and stuff like that.

John Ball:

It's like, well, you can check that stuff out outside of the Yeah, people

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want to get to the, to the juicy stuff.

John Ball:

The meat of it.

Tim Reid:

I, I'm amazed and, and you know, the little podcasters, the smaller

Tim Reid:

podcasters listening to this, don't beat yourself up if you're doing it.

Tim Reid:

You make a good point.

Tim Reid:

Another podcast that I listen to a lot is Sam Harris.

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He's a philosopher.

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I think his podcast is called Waking Up.

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Now Sam Yeah.

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Is an experienced media person.

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Sam is an experienced podcaster.

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Sam is a philosopher.

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He's incredibly considered and well thought out.

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However, he spends an incredible amount of time right at the top

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of his, each episode, giving a bit of a bio of the guest.

Tim Reid:

Then he introduces the.

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and his first question to the guest is, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Tim Reid:

It's like, Sam, Sam, the lesson there for us all, and Sam's a philosopher.

Tim Reid:

He's not a marketer, he's not a consumer behaviorist.

Tim Reid:

You know, I, I, I'll forgive him, although he should know better.

Tim Reid:

What he should do is get straight into the meat and potatoes of,

Tim Reid:

you know, why is this guest here?

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You know?

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And the, the lesson is, respect the audience.

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That's what we've got as podcasters, anyone creating content.

Tim Reid:

It ain't about you and I, Johnny in this show right now.

Tim Reid:

It's about whoever's listening.

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And my mindset is, and I'm sure yours is, how do we extract, how do you extract

Tim Reid:

maximum value from me as the guest?

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And how do I, as the guest, make sure that I give maximum value to the.

Tim Reid:

Because they have, they have for whatever reason, madness a, a slight

Tim Reid:

lapse in, you know, brain fog.

Tim Reid:

They've decided to listen to you and I . Yeah,

John Ball:

exactly.

John Ball:

And I'm, and I'm always very grateful for that.

John Ball:

You know, I, I just uh, just last week hit 10,000 downloads, which

John Ball:

good on, I think I'm, I think I might be a little bit behind the industry

John Ball:

curve, but I'm still happy that I hit the , hit that figure cuz it's a.

Tim Reid:

It is an absolute milestone.

Tim Reid:

Again, I mean, be absolutely be proud of it.

Tim Reid:

Pop the cork on it, but don't attach yourself to it and don't

Tim Reid:

spend too much time thinking about it because it's a number.

Tim Reid:

If you say to me, is that a good number?

Tim Reid:

I don't know.

Tim Reid:

It's 10,000.

Tim Reid:

It's, it's less than 11,000 and more than nine.

Tim Reid:

Seth Goden, who's one of the world's you.

Tim Reid:

Leading marketing experts and who I interviewed on the small business,

Tim Reid:

big marketing show a few years ago, made the point that every business

Tim Reid:

needs a thousand raving fans.

Tim Reid:

Doesn't matter what the business is, you need a thousand raving fans,

Tim Reid:

not 10,000, not a million, not two.

Tim Reid:

But if you can have a thousand and it's, and for, you know, for the local locksmith

Tim Reid:

listening or the local chiropractor or accountant, they might go, they might go,

Tim Reid:

that's a lot, but not, it's not really not if you create content that is, is worth.

Tim Reid:

That is, that is whether it be life changing or business changing or

Tim Reid:

compelling, having a thousand people who listen and may talk about you to

Tim Reid:

others, it's not that big a number.

Tim Reid:

So I think my point there is again, don't focus on the numbers, you

Tim Reid:

know, because I'm not sure they're that compelling, whether they're

John Ball:

five, you know, it was . No, I, I agree.

John Ball:

And it's whilst the sta you should certainly pay attention to your stats

John Ball:

that they're not the be all and end all, because they don't tell you

John Ball:

everything that's going on and as much as you can have, you know, I've been in

John Ball:

groups online where there, especially like, I think a one marketing group

John Ball:

that I've been in where there was over 17,000 people in this group, but a very

John Ball:

small fraction of that were active.

John Ball:

And so it's like, well, would you rather have a small active audience

John Ball:

or a large inactive audience?

John Ball:

I would rather have a smaller engaged and active audience myself.

Tim Reid:

A hundred percent.

Tim Reid:

A hundred percent.

Tim Reid:

You know, like give me a hundred, a hundred customers who actively

Tim Reid:

wanna buy from me on a regular basis, versus a thousand who

Tim Reid:

window shop and mail may not buy.

Tim Reid:

You know, that's, yeah.

Tim Reid:

That's where I'd like to,

John Ball:

Now you would've seen a lot of changes in the time.

John Ball:

I mean, our podcasting has changed quite a lot in the last five years,

John Ball:

certainly in the last 10 years.

John Ball:

And, and you've been podcasting through that time and, and I wonder what are

John Ball:

some of the most significant things that you've noticed in the development

John Ball:

of podcasting as an industry in that.

Tim Reid:

I get asked this about Marketing J because the small business, big

Tim Reid:

marketing podcast is about marketing.

Tim Reid:

I get asked that question about marketing and then specifically when we're

Tim Reid:

talking podcasting about podcasting.

Tim Reid:

And my answer is always the same.

Tim Reid:

There will always be a bright, shiny object, Johnny, there is

Tim Reid:

always gonna be a new microphone.

Tim Reid:

There is always gonna be a new social media platform, like,

Tim Reid:

you know, say a clubhouse.

Tim Reid:

There's always going to be a new recording software.

Tim Reid:

We are on Riverside fm.

Tim Reid:

There's Zencaster, there's blue jeans, there's, there's

Tim Reid:

always going to be something.

Tim Reid:

But guess what?

Tim Reid:

The fundamentals remain unchanged.

Tim Reid:

Create, create compelling content.

Tim Reid:

Know your audience, know what problems they have that you can solve.

Tim Reid:

Create compelling content around it, doing it in an engaging way that has people

Tim Reid:

leading in and listening, and you are on, on the road to creating something special.

Tim Reid:

If you constantly, you know, like when, when other podcasters find out, or even

Tim Reid:

not podcasts, maybe would be podcasters.

Tim Reid:

Find out that I'm a podcaster more often than not, and I'll

Tim Reid:

say out eight out of 10 times.

Tim Reid:

The very first question is, what microphone do you use?

Tim Reid:

It's irrelevant.

Tim Reid:

, it's such an irrelevant question.

Tim Reid:

It doesn't matter.

Tim Reid:

The microphones on our smartphones these days are broadcast quality, so find

Tim Reid:

a microphone that you know you like.

Tim Reid:

You like the look of, I mean, absolutely.

Tim Reid:

Audio is good quality audio is fundamental to creating great podcasts,

Tim Reid:

but gee, unless you've won the microphone at the local fair, then

Tim Reid:

the one you buy at the local discount store probably ain't gonna be too bad.

Tim Reid:

So, I care little for developments.

Tim Reid:

We've had, you know, Spotify's come on board and they've got podcasts now.

Tim Reid:

You know, I know Facebook and Google it.

Tim Reid:

They're all working hard.

Tim Reid:

They've got Stitch.

Tim Reid:

Everyone's working hard to capture the podcast market.

Tim Reid:

But again, I stay pretty focused and my focus is on my listener,

Tim Reid:

on their needs, on the problems they have that I can solve, and

Tim Reid:

creating content that solves it in.

Tim Reid:

And for me, and people say to me, Johnny, you know, why is

Tim Reid:

the small business big marketing podcast so popular and successful?

Tim Reid:

And I say, I, well, I can tell you it's not the best

Tim Reid:

marketing podcast in Australia.

Tim Reid:

I know that it's just not, there are better marketing podcasts.

Tim Reid:

However, what I have found, and my mine's a very good marketing podcast,

Tim Reid:

but there are marketing podcasts that possibly have better information more

Tim Reid:

detailed information, but I have found the intersection between educating

Tim Reid:

my listeners around the topic of marketing and entertaining my listeners

Tim Reid:

so that whatever I am educating them on lands and I don't believe, yeah,

Tim Reid:

certainly I can't educate a hundred percent of the time, nor do I want to

Tim Reid:

because I'm not a university professor.

Tim Reid:

I can't entertain a hundred percent of the time because I'm not a standup

Tim Reid:

comedian, but if I find that sweet spot between the two and I can put a

Tim Reid:

smile on my dial, on my dial, if I can put a smile on the dial of my audience

Tim Reid:

while I'm imparting information.

Tim Reid:

Then I've won.

Tim Reid:

So that is my long-winded answer to saying I'm not that interested in developments.

Tim Reid:

I'm interested in the fundamentals.

Tim Reid:

. John Ball: Yeah.

Tim Reid:

And that's great.

Tim Reid:

I mean, much as in, in marketing.

Tim Reid:

I know I recently was reading like the, the 2022, I can't remember, the 22

Tim Reid:

Fundamental Immutable Laws of Marketing.

Tim Reid:

Immutable Laws of Marketing.

Tim Reid:

That's it.

Tim Reid:

And it, it's not a new book.

Tim Reid:

It's been around a while.

Tim Reid:

Reis & Trout, it's from 1964 or something,

John Ball:

but the principles are pretty solid.

John Ball:

So even though a lot of the a hundred things that are list mentioned in there

John Ball:

are maybe a bit out to date now and certainly not up to date with the latest

John Ball:

uh, technology and everything else, the principles still work and, and we forget

John Ball:

sometimes how important principles are.

John Ball:

We

Tim Reid:

do.

Tim Reid:

Johnny, my 23 year old son, William started as a marketing

Tim Reid:

coordinator at Junior Marketing Executive in a company just last.

Tim Reid:

He's been brought on to be a bit of a content creator, a

Tim Reid:

bit of a social media legend.

Tim Reid:

Cause he's a he, he's a digital native.

Tim Reid:

He's 23 years old.

Tim Reid:

And guess what book I gave him?

Tim Reid:

The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing from 1960 Bloody Four.

Tim Reid:

You know, because the fundamentals are the same.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

I mean it's much like I, I, one of the books I got a lot of value from

John Ball:

a few years ago when it came out was Ray Dalio's book Principles as well.

John Ball:

Just getting, getting those principles is so much more empowering because

John Ball:

that's guiding your decision.

John Ball:

So rather than being told what to do, you are being given the baseline

John Ball:

information that guides the decision making processes for, for better options.

John Ball:

Much like, I think like most people would benefit from listening and

John Ball:

tuning into and having their own philosophy, and a lot of people don't.

John Ball:

When you have principles that guide you in life, it just makes things, I

John Ball:

think, a lot easier, a lot clearer as well, rather than this opinion, that

John Ball:

opinion, as you said, shiny object here,

John Ball:

shiny object there.

Tim Reid:

Yep.

Tim Reid:

Everyone's got an opinion.

John Ball:

I, I do wonder though, I mean, you talk about make, having a

John Ball:

career in podcasting, do you, do you at least think it's easier now to make a

John Ball:

career out of podcasting than it may have been even, even just a few years ago?

Tim Reid:

That's an interesting question I have I've had success both back in

Tim Reid:

the day when podcasting wasn't a thing, and I have had success today with

Tim Reid:

podcasting being well and truly a thing.

Tim Reid:

I had success early on because it wasn't a very crowded marketplace.

Tim Reid:

And as long as I was creating great content and I could find a sponsor,

Tim Reid:

a, in my case, a chief marketing officer or a marketing director from

Tim Reid:

a company who had heard of podcasts.

Tim Reid:

Because even back then it was like, have you heard of a podcast?

Tim Reid:

Have you ever listened to one?

Tim Reid:

So my job back then was to monetize my podcast, was to find marketing people.

Tim Reid:

Knew of podcasts and hopefully listened to mine.

Tim Reid:

And that was an easy sell and there weren't many podcasts to choose from.

Tim Reid:

So, I wasn't competing in a busy marketplace.

Tim Reid:

Nowadays, I am competing at a busy marketplace, but there's more

Tim Reid:

money being thrown at podcasting than there was back then.

Tim Reid:

So, I, I don't really know the answer to that except to say, Have a go because

Tim Reid:

I know when I speak at conferences and if I talk about podcasting from

Tim Reid:

stage or blogging or eBooks or you know, YouTube videos that we should be

Tim Reid:

creating as business owners, there'll be someone in the audience that says,

Tim Reid:

ah, there's so much of that out there.

Tim Reid:

I saw a stat the other day where there's 72 hours.

Tim Reid:

Footage uploaded to YouTube every minute, and it's like, okay, that

Tim Reid:

might be a fact, and it might be a fact that six new podcasts come

Tim Reid:

online every hour of every day.

Tim Reid:

It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, it just creates a creative

Tim Reid:

challenge to make really good content.

Tim Reid:

You know, that's, that's the challenge.

Tim Reid:

You know, even I'll, I'll say the same in five years time, when there is 10 times

Tim Reid:

as many podcasts as there are today, it doesn't mean you shouldn't podcast.

Tim Reid:

You just gotta make really good content.

Tim Reid:

And I think that's where people fail.

Tim Reid:

You know, if, if marketing is made up of medium and message, one of the

Tim Reid:

marketing fundamentals is identify the medium where the fi, where fish, where

Tim Reid:

the fish are, and then create messages that attract the fish, create the bait.

Tim Reid:

And the easy part of that equation is medium.

Tim Reid:

So in our case, we choose podcasting as the me, our

Tim Reid:

medium of choice, our challenge.

Tim Reid:

That's an easy decision.

Tim Reid:

Our challenge is, what are you gonna say on the podcast

Tim Reid:

that's gonna be so compelling?

Tim Reid:

And that's always going to be the challenge.

Tim Reid:

So, and I don't think enough business owners, whether it'll be talking

Tim Reid:

podcasting or any marketing, spend enough time on idea generation on sitting back

Tim Reid:

and, and rubbing their chin and going, what can I create that's gonna be really

Tim Reid:

compelling and better than everyone else?

John Ball:

And I agree.

John Ball:

There's there's a lot of people seem to be creating content and chucking

John Ball:

it out for the sake of doing it, or even, I guess, paying other people

John Ball:

to create their content and it's not really having that connection because

John Ball:

it's not coming genuinely from them.

John Ball:

And so, you know, there, there are definitely some issues that what in

John Ball:

your mind or in your experience, I said, because you've been creating content

John Ball:

effectively for a long time, what.

John Ball:

Good contents, especially with podcasts.

John Ball:

Content

Tim Reid:

that the listener wants, number one, they might not know they might

Tim Reid:

want and needs something different, but first of all, give them what they want.

Tim Reid:

Yeah.

Tim Reid:

Now that could be going out and identifying what

Tim Reid:

questions have your listeners.

Tim Reid:

That you could solve or provide answers to in a podcast.

Tim Reid:

One of the things that I encourage everyone to do who is starting a podcast,

Tim Reid:

and even if you have already got a podcast, I would go back and do this,

Tim Reid:

and it's called Your Editorial Mission.

Tim Reid:

Now, the editorial mission was something developed by magazine

Tim Reid:

publishers many, many, many years ago, and it was simply a way of defining

Tim Reid:

what's the magazine going to be about?

Tim Reid:

Well, in the case of the editorial mission for us, it's what's

Tim Reid:

the podcast going to be about?

Tim Reid:

And there's three questions to answer.

Tim Reid:

What have you got to offer to who and what outcome can they expect?

Tim Reid:

So the editorial mission for the Small Business Big Marketing

Tim Reid:

podcast, what I have to offer is marketing tips and tricks for who?

Tim Reid:

Small service-based business owners who are frustrated by.

Tim Reid:

What outcome can they expect to generate more warm inquiry?

Tim Reid:

So marketing tips and tricks for small service-based business owners

Tim Reid:

frustrated about marketing to help them generate more warm inquiry.

Tim Reid:

Now that I know that it's very easy for me to determine what to talk about on

Tim Reid:

my podcast from stage in a book that I write, in a blog post, that I write in a

Tim Reid:

social media post that I put out there.

Tim Reid:

and it almost Johnny creates a fence.

Tim Reid:

And inside that fence is all the content that is relevant to your listeners.

Tim Reid:

And outside of that fence is the stuff that you'll never hear me talk about.

Tim Reid:

You'll never hear me talk about taxation.

Tim Reid:

You'll never hear me talk about real estate.

Tim Reid:

You'll never hear me talk about HR because they're outside of my editorial mission.

Tim Reid:

And anyone in podcast, anyone who's creating content should I

Tim Reid:

would say, Complete and get crystal clear on their editorial mission.

Tim Reid:

And if, if I may take that one step further.

Tim Reid:

Once you know what your editorial mission is, be very clear on the

Tim Reid:

personality of your brand and the way you share your knowledge.

Tim Reid:

So, because that's gonna be your point of difference.

Tim Reid:

You know, there's a lot of marketing podcasts out there, but again, if

Tim Reid:

you listen to the Small Business Big Marketing podcast, you'll.

Tim Reid:

You'll be freaked out occasionally, you'll have a laugh.

Tim Reid:

You'll be you know, I might upset you from something I say, but, hey, it's me.

Tim Reid:

And that's my personality.

Tim Reid:

Like it or lump it because that again, is my point of difference.

Tim Reid:

And for any other podcaster, it's gonna be their point of difference as well.

John Ball:

You, you may hear a few dad jokes.

John Ball:

I know that for sure after, after having listened to.

John Ball:

I know.

John Ball:

And I,

Tim Reid:

I, I, I dunno what to do about that.

Tim Reid:

I get accused of it all the time if someone meets me.

Tim Reid:

So they always bring up the dad jokes thing.

Tim Reid:

The reality is I'm a father of three, so I am a, I am a dad.

Tim Reid:

I do love a joke and you know, I'm from a different century, Johnny, so, you know,

Tim Reid:

I just have to, you know, like it, or

Tim Reid:

lump

John Ball:

it.

John Ball:

I think it's part of who you are.

John Ball:

It's part, part of the charm of the show.

John Ball:

I wouldn't do anything about it.

John Ball:

Don't change a thing.

John Ball:

Thank you very much.

John Ball:

But I do wonder, , I do wonder, in, in, in your podcast career, whether you have

John Ball:

ever faced things like the sort of content burnout that people often talk about

Tim Reid:

as in, geez, what am I gonna, what am I gonna create next?

Tim Reid:

Is that what you.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

That's feeling like like the muse has left the building and and you don't

John Ball:

really know what to do next, or you've feel like you've done everything at Okay.

John Ball:

That post-modern sort of malaise mm-hmm.

Tim Reid:

there is in terms of content burnout if I ever have a thought that,

Tim Reid:

geez, who am I going to interview next?

Tim Reid:

What topic am I going to cover?

Tim Reid:

It very quickly disappears because even though I have almost 600 episodes under

Tim Reid:

my belt, it's not really a big number.

Tim Reid:

When you look at, you know, a, the amount of potential people that I

Tim Reid:

could interview, B, the amount of opinions that I could share, C,

Tim Reid:

the amount of exper of amount of experiences that I have day-to-day as a

Tim Reid:

consumer out in the street and online.

Tim Reid:

They're always, so the, and these are all content opportunities, right?

Tim Reid:

So as podcasters in particular, we need to have our content radars on all the time.

Tim Reid:

A mate of mine was on he had the most popular radio program

Tim Reid:

in Australia at one point.

Tim Reid:

And you know, like those radio programs alike, they're all shouting

Tim Reid:

and they're doing silly things and playing games and competitions.

Tim Reid:

You know, primetime breakfast or drive radio.

Tim Reid:

And my friend Jules had the beat, the number one show in Australia.

Tim Reid:

I said to him once, I said, how do you keep up?

Tim Reid:

Because, hey, I'm just creating an episode of a week on my podcast.

Tim Reid:

Whereas he's every night from three till six having to create content,

Tim Reid:

and he actually simply carries his iPhone around as we all do.

Tim Reid:

He has voice memos open all the time and every time.

Tim Reid:

Something happens to him out in the street.

Tim Reid:

He might what, whatever it may be.

Tim Reid:

He used the example when he was talking about this, it was actually a

Tim Reid:

part of an interview I did with him.

Tim Reid:

He used the example of paying for a ticket at a car park and something weird

Tim Reid:

happened and he had to push the button to speak to the person on the other end

Tim Reid:

of the intercom and, He just records that into his voice memo as a reminder

Tim Reid:

of there is some potential content.

Tim Reid:

So for him it was like, when was the last time you had to push a

Tim Reid:

button and speak to a stranger?

Tim Reid:

You know, call in now.

Tim Reid:

So my point there is, as content creators as podcasters, we always

Tim Reid:

need to be on the lookout for content and not freak out when we think,

Tim Reid:

my goodness, we're gonna run out.

Tim Reid:

Because what I found too, as you create more content and as you become

Tim Reid:

more prolific as a podcast, People are gonna be reaching out to you.

Tim Reid:

PR agencies are gonna send pictures to say, Hey, interview my client.

Tim Reid:

Listeners are gonna say, Hey, could you cover an episode?

Tim Reid:

Could you cover this topic on a future episode?

Tim Reid:

And there's always opportunities for content coming left, right, and center.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

I look forward to receiving those kinds of requests from my

John Ball:

own listener, , at some point.

John Ball:

Come on, listeners.

John Ball:

Always,

Tim Reid:

Johnny's struggling next to know who to interview next.

John Ball:

Oh, no, I'm, I'm all good with that, but I certainly would

John Ball:

like to have some some feedback and some suggestions from people as well.

John Ball:

It's like the audience engaged a bit.

John Ball:

It takes a while.

John Ball:

It does take a while to develop that and to build that up, especially in podcasts.

Tim Reid:

Well, Johnny, I'll give you a tip, mate.

Tim Reid:

What I've done on the Small Business Big Marketing podcast

Tim Reid:

is I have a phone number.

Tim Reid:

I give out a number and I'm gonna give it out right now and I'll give

Tim Reid:

out the international version of it because I would love anyone who's heard

Tim Reid:

me on Johnny's podcast to call me.

Tim Reid:

The number is plus 6 1 4 0 8 0 0 1 5 1 5 0.

Tim Reid:

You can call that number now and you can leave up to five minute,

Tim Reid:

up to a five minute message.

Tim Reid:

And if I like it, if, well, if I like it and I think it adds value

Tim Reid:

to my listening audience, then I will play it on an upcoming episode.

Tim Reid:

Every single episode of my podcast has a voicemail from a lister.

Tim Reid:

It could be a marketing idea that's working for them.

Tim Reid:

It could be a commentary on a, an episode that they listened to and

Tim Reid:

liked and what they liked about it.

Tim Reid:

It could.

Tim Reid:

That they don't like my style and I could improve it, whatever it is, ring

Tim Reid:

me, leave a message and I'll play it.

Tim Reid:

Because as a podcaster, I wish we could do talkback and in fact, I think

Tim Reid:

talkback is starting to become possible.

Tim Reid:

I think even on Riverside fm there is the opportunity for people to call in.

Tim Reid:

I haven't worked out that technology yet but having that dialogue back and

Tim Reid:

forth between listeners is wonderful.

John Ball:

Yeah, it is.

John Ball:

The technology is absolutely there for it.

John Ball:

I mean, even with a show like this, we have the capability to have live audience

John Ball:

Now they can't interact verbally, but we can, they can be invited, they can

John Ball:

be given a link to come and to join the studio, but they can, because you can

Tim Reid:

send the link out, can't you?

Tim Reid:

On your socials via Riverside where they can log in and they could

Tim Reid:

be watching us and they could be putting questions through chat.

Tim Reid:

That's awesome.

John Ball:

Yeah I had a try at doing live stuff with the show for a while

John Ball:

and the only thing I'm reluctant with it is the, and you may notice

John Ball:

this as we're recording, like people who've seen video of this after the

John Ball:

recording will see it's all pretty high quality stuff, but whilst it's

John Ball:

actually live, It's not always so great.

John Ball:

You might see a bit of deterioration in the video and I don't really love putting

John Ball:

out content, but that doesn't look that good as well as video content, and that's

John Ball:

probably my my only real concern with it.

John Ball:

But I do like the idea of having more live interaction, and I hope

John Ball:

that becomes a bigger thing with more podcasts, and I think with services

John Ball:

like Discord, which I'm still trying to figure out and learn, those

John Ball:

capabilities are, are definitely there.

John Ball:

But I love the idea of having a, a phone line that is dedicated for

John Ball:

people being able to come and leave messages about the show and actually

John Ball:

have that verbal interaction.

John Ball:

I think I mean, We could even use, I guess you could even use voice messages

John Ball:

on LinkedIn or something like that.

John Ball:

Just just as well the tech technology is definitely up there and available.

John Ball:

Right.

John Ball:

I I really like that.

John Ball:

I wonder for you, what has been the, whether you feel the podcasting has

John Ball:

played a significant role in your own personal and professional development

John Ball:

over the time that you've been?

Tim Reid:

Oh, there's no doubt.

Tim Reid:

I, how can I be specific about that?

Tim Reid:

I'm very proud of what I've created with the Small Business Big Marketing podcast.

Tim Reid:

It has taken me well and truly outside my comfort zone, albeit I am, I'm sort

Tim Reid:

of an introverted extrovert in the sense that I do like my own space and time,

Tim Reid:

but I like the fact that podcasting Puts me out there, puts my head above

Tim Reid:

the trench, has created an entire public speaking career that has really,

Tim Reid:

you know, given me a good lifestyle.

Tim Reid:

I'm, I'm really, I, I feel very grateful for that.

Tim Reid:

And again, direct line from being a podcaster to being a popular public speak,

Tim Reid:

you know, at it, at its peak pre-covid, I was doing about 60 conferences its peak

Tim Reid:

pre-covid, I was in different countries.

Tim Reid:

Again, direct line from being a podcaster to doing that, and as a

Tim Reid:

result of having to step up and become a public speaker, I've then had to

Tim Reid:

go out and seek a speaking coach.

Tim Reid:

I've had to go out and study other speakers as I do, I

Tim Reid:

study other interviewers, so.

Tim Reid:

Being in that space.

Tim Reid:

Yeah.

Tim Reid:

I, I, I feel like it's, it's been awesome for me.

Tim Reid:

It's been absolutely awesome for me and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Tim Reid:

I you know, careful what you wish for.

Tim Reid:

You know, I wanted to be on radio.

Tim Reid:

Well, I wasn't, I have been subsequently, but I got my own

Tim Reid:

radio show in the form of a podcast.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

What perhaps have been the biggest challenges for you

John Ball:

then in your podcasting?

Tim Reid:

there are times when you go, is it worth it?

Tim Reid:

Not because, you know, for no other reason that I've, you know, for me,

Tim Reid:

I've been doing it for 13 years and it's like, well, and, and it is an,

Tim Reid:

it's an interesting question that I continue to sort of ask myself.

Tim Reid:

It's like, well, well when do I stop?

Tim Reid:

Like, when do I stop?

Tim Reid:

I joined Australia's biggest podcasting network just just over two years ago.

Tim Reid:

Which didn't work out for me.

Tim Reid:

It was the wrong decision.

Tim Reid:

So there was a sort of bump in the road then, and a moment of contemplation, well,

Tim Reid:

okay, once my contract's up, do I stop?

Tim Reid:

But then I went back to my listeners only in, I went back

Tim Reid:

and thought about my listeners.

Tim Reid:

I didn't go back to my listeners and asked them, but.

Tim Reid:

No I can't let them down.

Tim Reid:

I'm not ready to stop yet.

Tim Reid:

I haven't covered enough en enough topics.

Tim Reid:

You know, I feel like there's, I, there's still things that I need to

Tim Reid:

do in regards to podcasting and so, you know, the journey continues.

Tim Reid:

I'd like to do some live events.

Tim Reid:

I'd like to be recording some episodes live.

Tim Reid:

I'd like to be maybe bringing in some guest co-hosts.

Tim Reid:

I had a co-host for the first 80 episodes of the Small Business Big Marketing Show.

Tim Reid:

And Luke, who is still one of my best.

Tim Reid:

, but after 80 episodes he didn't see the value in it.

Tim Reid:

You know, so bringing people in and having that, cuz I dunno

Tim Reid:

about you, you're a single host.

Tim Reid:

I'm a single host and yeah it's fun.

Tim Reid:

It's also fun having a co-host to bounce things off and do all that kind of stuff.

Tim Reid:

But there's plenty of left, there's plenty of left things left to do, Johnny.

John Ball:

Yeah, yeah.

John Ball:

The, the co-host stuff has been on my mind a bit recently too.

John Ball:

And I did do my very first show and one of my earlier shows with

John Ball:

a friend, a very good friend of mine, who was my co-host for that.

John Ball:

And it was, it was fun.

John Ball:

I know she's not able to commit to coming back to being a co-host, but yeah, the,

John Ball:

just being able to have that, I think it increases the chemistry of the show.

John Ball:

And you've got someone who you have such a deep level rapport with, and

John Ball:

then you invite maybe another guest on to come and connect with that rapport.

John Ball:

Yes.

John Ball:

That's already going on is is, is quite powerful I think.

John Ball:

No, I, I like it on other podcasts as well.

Tim Reid:

If, if there are podcasters listening to this or people who

Tim Reid:

wanna start a podcast and they're considering the co-host format.

Tim Reid:

All I would say to that is make sure that your co-host is very different

Tim Reid:

to you because it's very uninteresting listening to two people who agree with,

Tim Reid:

who agree with each other all the time.

Tim Reid:

If it's a yes fest.

Tim Reid:

I, I think that's just really boring listening.

Tim Reid:

So for me, Luke, who is my co-host for the first 80 episodes, He's, he

Tim Reid:

was and continues to be everything.

Tim Reid:

I'm not, he's very considered, he's, he likes to get under the bonnet of

Tim Reid:

the various aspects of marketing.

Tim Reid:

You know, how do face, how does Google ads work?

Tim Reid:

How do Facebook ads work?

Tim Reid:

How's SEO work?

Tim Reid:

And, and I sort of, I absolutely want to explore that, but I'm much more

Tim Reid:

interested in the birds' eye macro view when I'm talking to a business owner.

Tim Reid:

It.

Tim Reid:

Where'd the idea come from?

Tim Reid:

How did you get it to market?

Tim Reid:

Was there a moment in time when you found yourself in the fetal position

Tim Reid:

rocking back and forth because you thought you'd made a mistake?

Tim Reid:

So between the two of us, Luke is asking the detailed stuff.

Tim Reid:

I'm asking the sort of bird's eye macro stuff that's interesting.

Tim Reid:

And if you're both going down the same path, it's less interesting.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

I, I wonder for you, I know personally I have found some unexpected benefits

John Ball:

in the podcast world both from being a guest on other people's

John Ball:

shows and from having my own show.

John Ball:

And I wonder if you found the same,

Tim Reid:

Unexpected better?

Tim Reid:

Totally.

Tim Reid:

I mean, I wrote, I've written a whole book on it.

Tim Reid:

You can see it behind me.

Tim Reid:

The Boomerang Effect.

Tim Reid:

The Boomerang Effect is an effect that I sort of came up with, which

Tim Reid:

basically says, The more effort you put into your, the marketing of your

Tim Reid:

personal brand or your business, the more it will return multiples.

Tim Reid:

Boomerang is being sticks that our indigenous people threw that

Tim Reid:

came back, return themselves to the person who threw it.

Tim Reid:

And you know, so I've absolutely found that.

Tim Reid:

So for me, my boomerang effect with starting a podcast was, yeah, I

Tim Reid:

built an audience, I built a strong personal brand within the small

Tim Reid:

business community in Australia.

Tim Reid:

I've developed a speaking.

Tim Reid:

I've had a lot of media opportunities, whether they be interviews on

Tim Reid:

radio or TV or other people's podcasts or articles in magazines.

Tim Reid:

I've had the opportunity to write a book.

Tim Reid:

I've had so many incredible things happen as a direct result, and my boomerang

Tim Reid:

effect will be different to your boomerang effect will be different to.

Tim Reid:

The next person's.

Tim Reid:

But you need to put faith in that because as business owners listening to this,

Tim Reid:

thinking of starting a podcast, if you do it right, you'll get more sales.

Tim Reid:

That's sort of like, that's a ticket to the game.

Tim Reid:

That's That's base one.

Tim Reid:

Yeah.

Tim Reid:

But if you get it really right, other things will happen.

Tim Reid:

You'll be positioned as a thought leader in your industry.

Tim Reid:

You'll be asked to appear on panels at conferences, you'll.

Tim Reid:

, you know, you'll be someone that people d defer to for

Tim Reid:

opinions and whatever it may be.

Tim Reid:

So I find that really exciting.

John Ball:

Do, do you think then that there's a lot of value in, especially if

John Ball:

it's gonna be a business related podcast, or especially if you're gonna make it your

John Ball:

business in starting a, not necessarily starting perfect, but at least starting as

John Ball:

well as you can, being well prepared for.

Tim Reid:

Yeah.

Tim Reid:

Look, I, yes.

Tim Reid:

I mean, if I look back at episode one, other small business, big marketing

Tim Reid:

podcast, it's slightly embarrassing, but hey, I didn't know any better.

Tim Reid:

I was just having a crack and, you know, there's been a, a steady, I

Tim Reid:

would say not, it's not a straight line improvement because every now

Tim Reid:

and then I've fallen back to bad old ways and there'll be times when,

Tim Reid:

geez, I've just gotta get a show out.

Tim Reid:

But, you know, Didn't have the equipment.

Tim Reid:

I might have been traveling, but Johnny, I've done, I've done episodes.

Tim Reid:

In a wardrobe under my duna in the business class cabin of an Etihad

Tim Reid:

plane departing from the Middle East.

Tim Reid:

I've done it on the shores of a Fijian island with a security guard standing

Tim Reid:

behind me wondering what I was doing.

Tim Reid:

You know, you just have to roll with the punches and you know, you just,

Tim Reid:

you, you create and get through these challenges, however best you can, but,

Tim Reid:

I think you do just need to start to your, to your question you know, you've

Tim Reid:

gotta have reasonably good audio.

Tim Reid:

I don't like to put pressure on people who are thinking of starting

Tim Reid:

a podcast, but, you know, a ticket to the game would be good audio,

Tim Reid:

because again, you've gotta remember people are listening to a podcast,

Tim Reid:

they're on the road, so they're dealing with road noise.

Tim Reid:

They could be on a train or a tram or a bus dealing with that noise.

Tim Reid:

They could be in the gym dealing with that noise.

Tim Reid:

So our audio that we deliver really has to be able to cut through all that.

Tim Reid:

So, you know, getting that right.

Tim Reid:

But it's like anything, if you wait for perfection, you will never start.

Tim Reid:

So you may as well just get productive and start.

John Ball:

Yeah, I, I definitely don't believe in starting perfect, but I, you

John Ball:

know, you certainly don't need all the best equipment, but it's worth having some

John Ball:

basic equipment and most people have got.

John Ball:

At least some basic microphone.

John Ball:

And I do generally recommend not to use like internal

John Ball:

computer microphones and stuff.

John Ball:

They're not great.

John Ball:

No.

John Ball:

And even phone microphones, they can be okay, but you, you have to test it and

John Ball:

see ultimately, but you need to make sure that you are at least listenable

John Ball:

for, for the duration of doing that.

John Ball:

But having a bit of a plan of action and remembering that just as much as with

John Ball:

any social media content that you put out is representing you and your brand.

John Ball:

So make sure you're happy with what you're putting out.

John Ball:

There's representing Sure, yeah, that's right for it.

John Ball:

And I think if does, doesn't matter if it's not perfect, just, just

John Ball:

make sure that it's like, it's not pulling you down when you put it out.

John Ball:

It's like, have a few practice trials, but first by all means, but

John Ball:

don't don't put out bad content.

John Ball:

It's not, that's the worst thing.

John Ball:

Worst thing you can do.

John Ball:

. I want to if you okay for a few more minutes.

John Ball:

I would just like to ask you, I know you've written a book yourself,

John Ball:

but I wonder if there are any other books or resources that you would

John Ball:

recommend people to check out.

John Ball:

Maybe they relate to marketing, personal development, or principles that we talked

John Ball:

about earlier, but what would be your book recommendations other than your own book?

John Ball:

The Boomerang Effect.

Tim Reid:

I am gonna turn around and look at my business bookshelf right now.

Tim Reid:

I certainly would recommend the Boomerang Effect, which you can get

Tim Reid:

at small business big marketing.com.

Tim Reid:

But what business book do I go back to?

Tim Reid:

A lot, I'm just looking at them now.

Tim Reid:

Not a big reader of business books.

Tim Reid:

Cause I sort of, when I do find time to read, it's generally fictional.

Tim Reid:

That's a really interesting question because there are so many, you know,

Tim Reid:

the one I'm gonna Okay, got it.

Tim Reid:

I.

Tim Reid:

The War of Art, Stephen Press, I think Stephen Pressfield is the author of that.

Tim Reid:

It is an awesome book.

Tim Reid:

The War of Art is for any content creator.

Tim Reid:

Any artist who wants to create something special but is full of procrastination,

Tim Reid:

is full of block artists, block painters, block, whatever you want to call it.

Tim Reid:

And it's just a beautifully, it's a beautifully written book.

Tim Reid:

, it's sort of fictional in nature.

Tim Reid:

It's not a, it's not like a classic business book.

Tim Reid:

You'll read it in a day and you'll probably reread it four or five

Tim Reid:

times and just have it handy for when you're procrastinating the war of art.

Tim Reid:

It's a fantastic, fantastic book.

John Ball:

Yeah, great.

John Ball:

A great recommendation.

John Ball:

I just, one final question then.

John Ball:

What, what's the, what's the wisest advice you've ever received?

Tim Reid:

Don't look into the sun during a total ec.

John Ball:

That was pretty good advice.

John Ball:

A little

Tim Reid:

Yes, it is.

Tim Reid:

It is good advice.

Tim Reid:

That again, you know, something that comes to mind immediately.

Tim Reid:

I did an episode about six years ago on the Small Business Big marketing podcast,

Tim Reid:

and it was with, and it was at a time when I was really wanting to take my

Tim Reid:

interviewing skills to the next level.

Tim Reid:

You know, I realized that, hey, I've been interviewing for a

Tim Reid:

while now and I really enjoy.

Tim Reid:

I really enjoy extracting stories from people.

Tim Reid:

I really enjoy making people feel comfortable so that they can

Tim Reid:

share what they want to share.

Tim Reid:

And I knew I wasn't the best at it and I wanted to get a lot better at it.

Tim Reid:

So I thought, who's the best interviewer in Australia than

Tim Reid:

I could get connect with?

Tim Reid:

And there was a fellow by the name of Richard Stubbs, and he had a, an

Tim Reid:

afternoon show on ABC Radio in Australia, and he was a great storyteller.

Tim Reid:

He was able to put a smile on your face.

Tim Reid:

He was fantastic with his guests.

Tim Reid:

And I approached him.

Tim Reid:

I reached out to him and I said, Richard, I'd love you to come

Tim Reid:

in and be a guest on my podcast.

Tim Reid:

It's a marketing podcast and Richard by Trade is actually a standup comedian.

Tim Reid:

So it was a bit weird to have a standup comedian and a radio host on

Tim Reid:

a small business marketing podcast.

Tim Reid:

But I said, the reason I want to have you on is I want you to come.

Tim Reid:

Into the studio, and from the minute you open the door, I'll have record on and

Tim Reid:

I want to interview you about your life and how you've gone about interviewing.

Tim Reid:

But I want you to constructively feed back to me in real time.

Tim Reid:

Every time I do something good, but particularly every time I do

Tim Reid:

something bad or I could do it better.

Tim Reid:

So there is an episode of my podcast in which Richard does that, and for me it was

Tim Reid:

incredibly It was probably a very selfish interview cause it was all about me, but

Tim Reid:

I hoped it helped other people who were wanting to hone their interview skills.

Tim Reid:

And the one thing he said, Johnny, that really caught my

Tim Reid:

attention amongst many things.

Tim Reid:

Actually, the two things I'm gonna give you two, number one is listen.

Tim Reid:

As podcasters, we think we are there to talk.

Tim Reid:

We're actually there to listen.

Tim Reid:

And the less talk you do.

Tim Reid:

Yeah.

Tim Reid:

Better.

Tim Reid:

And you only need to watch Michael Parkinson from the bbc from Yeah.

Tim Reid:

He was on the BBC with, you know, part that famous, famous

Tim Reid:

Talkback TV show of years gone by.

Tim Reid:

He was incredibly economical with his words.

Tim Reid:

He really didn't talk much at all and let his guests do all the talking.

Tim Reid:

So that's really important.

Tim Reid:

And the otherwise bit of advice that Richard gave me was to

Tim Reid:

always lead with your best stuff.

Tim Reid:

So when you are creating content and you know that a guest has done

Tim Reid:

something amazing, don't wait.

Tim Reid:

The second half of the interview to get to that lead with it, cuz that's

Tim Reid:

gonna hold people and people are gonna be go leaning in and they're

Tim Reid:

gonna be going, wow, that's amazing.

Tim Reid:

That's amazing.

Tim Reid:

And they're gonna hang around for more.

Tim Reid:

Whereas if, you know, as the interviewer that there's something good coming up, but

Tim Reid:

no one else does, then you're gonna lose your audience unless you can do hooks.

Tim Reid:

You know, don't forget coming up.

Tim Reid:

Richard's gonna talk to us about such and such.

Tim Reid:

But yeah, that there were two good bits of advice that.

John Ball:

Oh yeah, that's definitely something I need to get better at.

John Ball:

Well, I re I really want to go and listen to that episode now.

John Ball:

You've you've hooked my interest to go good listening to more of your show.

John Ball:

And I definitely would recommend anyone who's listening to this

John Ball:

go and check out the show.

John Ball:

So much.

John Ball:

Good advice.

John Ball:

And as you do with podcasts, you know, people that think, oh, you go and listen

John Ball:

to the latest show, not necessarily find the shows that you like, find

John Ball:

the topics that you're interested in.

John Ball:

That's what exactly what I do with any podcast that I go and listen to.

John Ball:

And that's one of.

John Ball:

One quick lesson we leave for everyone to make sure you have good episode titles.

John Ball:

If you can have a podcast that actually let people know what they're about.

John Ball:

It took me a while to figure that one out.

John Ball:

But tim, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today.

John Ball:

I've learned a lot.

John Ball:

I know anyone listening to this show has also learned from you too, and

John Ball:

hope they were gonna check out your show and your book and and I hope we

John Ball:

get to connect again in the future.

John Ball:

It's been an absolute pleasure.

John Ball:

Tim Reid, thank you for being guest.

John Ball:

Johnny.

Tim Reid:

Good on you, Johnny.

Tim Reid:

I appreciate your words.

Tim Reid:

My, my podcast, but also well done to you for creating a podcast

Tim Reid:

about podcasting to help others embrace what is an awesome medium.

Tim Reid:

It's a medium that's growing.

Tim Reid:

It's a medium that can be incredible for your personal brand, for your

Tim Reid:

business brands, and it's a lot of fun.

Tim Reid:

So, make it a hobby.

Tim Reid:

Thanks so much, Johnny.

Tim Reid:

Absolutely.

Tim Reid:

Thank

John Ball:

you.

John Ball:

If you will allow me to be your podcast sommelier for a moment.

John Ball:

This episode, pairs very nicely with a glass of Spanish rioja, and also with

John Ball:

episode 132 of Podfluence with Alex San Felipo from Pod Match on how to create

John Ball:

business success through podcasts.

John Ball:

Now after having listened to the episode, are you able to answer the

John Ball:

three key editorial questions that Tim posed in this episode for your

John Ball:

show or even for your business?

John Ball:

If there's only one thing that you do and take away from this episode, make

John Ball:

sure it's that you can answer them and that you are happy with the answers.

John Ball:

I definitely encourage you to check out the Small Business Big Marketing podcast.

John Ball:

It's a lot of fun.

John Ball:

And if you get in contact with Tim, let him know you

John Ball:

heard him first on Podfluence.

John Ball:

If you want to become a top 1% podcast guest and have your pod

John Ball:

fluence, download my free ebook now so you can start building authority,

John Ball:

following and profits from podcast guesting in less than an hour.

John Ball:

All you have to do is click the link in the show notes.

John Ball:

A special shout out this week to Kevin Chemidlin from Grow The

John Ball:

Show for all the help he continues to provide podcasters like me in

John Ball:

improving and monetizing their shows.

John Ball:

Any improvements regular listeners may have noticed in recent

John Ball:

episodes are thanks to Kevin and his podcast accelerator program.

John Ball:

I can't recommend following him highly enough.

John Ball:

Do go and check out Kevin.

John Ball:

If you are serious, if you are looking to turn your podcast into a business,

John Ball:

then you wanna take a look at Kevin's Grow the show podcast accelerator.

John Ball:

That's it for this week.

John Ball:

Wherever you're going, wherever you're doing, have an amazing rest of your day.

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About the Podcast

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Podfluence
The podcast that helps business coaches build influence and income with podcasts

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About your host

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John Ball

From international flight attendant to international coach and trainer. Then on to podcaster and persuasion expert, it's been quite the journey for John. Now the author of the book Podfluence: how to build professional authority with podcasts, and host of the Podfluence podcast (formerly Speaking Influence) with over 150 episodes and over 10,000 downloads John is now focused on helping business coaches and speakers to build a following and grow your lead flow and charisma. You can now also listen to John on The Coaching Clinic podcast with his good friend and colleague Angie Besignano and the Try To Stand Up podcast where John is on a journey to become funnier on the stage and in his communication.