Episode 125

Steve Smith | How to build influence with clout

The curse of having a common name is that you can be mistaken for someone else but on the plus side it can be easy to remember. This is something I have in common with my guest Steve Smith. Our names may not be so distinctive but the knowledge and conversation really was.

Steve is a business coach, keynote speaker and podcast host, so we had a few more things in common. In this episode:

  • Why the right kind of clout matters
  • How speaking in a professional capacity could harm your brand
  • Why message matters
  • What leaders need to possess
  • My own challenge with presentation energy
  • Why are your audience checking their devices? (May not be what you think)
  • What happens when people think you're inauthentic?

and a few more things besides.

Special thanks to our show sponsors at Brand Face. Find out how they can help you get the right message for your business to connect with the right audience in the right way. Visit LearnAboutBrandFace.com

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Transcript
Johnny:

Welcome to the show.

Johnny:

My name's Johnny Ball, this is Speaking Influence the show where we dive into the

Johnny:

world of influence and persuasion to help you build ethical influence and become

Johnny:

a powerfully persuasive communicator.

Johnny:

Each week I speak to guests from the world of public speaking, presentation

Johnny:

skills, psychology, neuroscience, marketing, personal branding,

Johnny:

secret service,

Johnny:

influencers and more besides.

Johnny:

The goal of this show is to help you to understand how influence and

Johnny:

persuasion work to be able to build your authority in your industry and to

Johnny:

become a better communicator, to get your message out into the world And to

Johnny:

change them positively affect people's lives and businesses, including your own.

Johnny:

This week, my guest is a very experienced business coach And also an expert speaker.

Johnny:

And we talk about things like developing clout with your business

Johnny:

and what that really means.

Johnny:

A lot about the integrity of authenticity, something that

Johnny:

comes up frequently on the show.

Johnny:

And we explore things in some very interesting ways.

Johnny:

So this is an interesting and fun conversation with Steve

Johnny:

Smith and I hope you will enjoy and check Steve out as well.

Johnny:

For me, this is a well nuanced conversation and also very well

Johnny:

balanced, both of us speaking from our expertise and able to have a really

Johnny:

fun discussion around things that will be relevant to you becoming a

Johnny:

powerfully persuasive communicator.

Johnny:

So all the remains for me to say is enjoy the show

Don:

Welcome to Speaking Influence.

Don:

The show that helps you to master the psychology and application

Don:

of ethical influence and persuasion, in life and business.

Don:

With persuasive presentations and podcasting coach, Johnny Ball.

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Johnny:

Well, I am very pleased today to be joined in the Speaking Influence

Johnny:

studios, by an expert speaker and trainer, someone who is really going to help us

Johnny:

get in touch with understanding how to translate, influence, and persuasion into

Johnny:

our lives and to understand our authentic selves and really get ourselves motivated.

Johnny:

Do the inner work to get the outer results.

Johnny:

His name is Steve Smith.

Johnny:

Welcome to the show.

Steve Smith:

Johnny.

Steve Smith:

Thanks for having me.

Steve Smith:

I'm looking forward to.

Johnny:

I've been looking forward to speaking to you,

Johnny:

Steve for the audience's benefit.

Johnny:

Tell us a little bit more about your background and how you came

Johnny:

to be doing what you do now.

Steve Smith:

Well, before I started coaching business

Steve Smith:

executives about 13 years ago.

Steve Smith:

My entire career was in the consumer products, manufacturing field.

Steve Smith:

And I worked for a few really large companies who were just set on providing

Steve Smith:

training and exposure to people that they were trying to move up the ranks.

Steve Smith:

And I had my share of of moving up the ranks, during that time.

Steve Smith:

But one of the things I caught onto early on.

Steve Smith:

Just about every single week you were in some type of presentation mode,

Steve Smith:

you were either presenting to a team.

Steve Smith:

You were presenting to a group of people above you that needed to put their

Steve Smith:

rubber stamp on something you want to do.

Steve Smith:

You were presenting to a sales meeting or a national company

Steve Smith:

meeting at the end of the year.

Steve Smith:

So there were always opportunities to be in front of any number of folks

Steve Smith:

to convey either your thoughts or information or something you wanted

Steve Smith:

them to be able to latch onto and leave the meeting thinking about.

Steve Smith:

And so after doing that for years, I realized that there's ways to actually get

Steve Smith:

into that in a very clear, confident way, and actually get things done as opposed to

Steve Smith:

just being up there and, moving your mouth and everybody looking at their watch and

Steve Smith:

saying, how long is this going to take?

Steve Smith:

And so for people that learn these techniques, it's a complete game

Steve Smith:

changer in terms of your confidence about wanting to speak in public.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Now, I know I speak about this on my show a lot.

Johnny:

So people who tune into the show regularly might sort of

Johnny:

think, oh, this old chestnut.

Johnny:

But but I never know when it's somebody's first time listening to the show and

Johnny:

it's always interesting to see people's answers to this, but how important

Johnny:

do you see presentation skills being in the professional world these days?

Steve Smith:

For me, presentation skills are the equivalent of

Steve Smith:

building a brand for a company.

Steve Smith:

many times, if you're presenting to a business group, you know, if you're in

Steve Smith:

the small business arena, you may have plenty of opportunities to present to

Steve Smith:

people that you've never met before.

Steve Smith:

And sometimes that may be the only opportunity that they have

Steve Smith:

to personally experience you,

Steve Smith:

prior to going to your website, looking at your products or services, doing other

Steve Smith:

things that might lead them to being a customer, a client, a partner, something

Steve Smith:

that would help you with your business.

Steve Smith:

So learning how to speak publicly and do it very well, it's

Steve Smith:

worth untold amounts of money.

Steve Smith:

In fact, I know people who do that as opposed to dumping a

Steve Smith:

lot of money into marketing and branding and it serves them well.

Steve Smith:

I mean, it's unbelievable how well.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Could we then aim to define what the cost of not doing that

Johnny:

would look like for people?

Steve Smith:

Yeah here's the way I tell people anytime they want to get

Steve Smith:

into some type of public speaking, it works well when you do it.

Steve Smith:

Well, if you don't do it well, don't do it.

Steve Smith:

It's the equivalent of being on a professional website like LinkedIn,

Steve Smith:

if you're not going to get on there and go big and be robust and make

Steve Smith:

yourself look important so that other people are gravitated to you,

Steve Smith:

it's better that you just stay off.

Steve Smith:

So public speaking kind of works the same way.

Steve Smith:

If you're not going to take the time to learn the techniques, to evaluate yourself

Steve Smith:

cause not everybody looks the same and we all shouldn't, but you know your

Steve Smith:

personality, you need to do the practice.

Steve Smith:

You need to do all the basic things to give yourself that, that natural flow that

Steve Smith:

other people just get, they gravitate to.

Steve Smith:

If you're not willing to go to the lengths to do that.

Steve Smith:

Don't just stand up there and just say, gee, over time, I'll get better

Steve Smith:

because you may not have, you may not get the opportunities to come back.

Johnny:

At what point did the clients you work with, come to

Johnny:

you and say, Steve, I need help?

Steve Smith:

The clients that I work with that usually need that kind of

Steve Smith:

help are more on the entrepreneurial, small business side, where they don't

Steve Smith:

have the luxury of a giant brand and mega budgets to push out the

Steve Smith:

message of what their company does.

Steve Smith:

Many times, if they're in a professional service type business,

Steve Smith:

they are the face of the company.

Steve Smith:

And at some point after we get through the low-hanging fruit of figuring out

Steve Smith:

how they're marketing themselves and are all the basics basically put together.

Steve Smith:

So if somebody actually connects with them, they know what to do from there.

Steve Smith:

After that, it's like, okay, let's talk about the outreach.

Steve Smith:

What is it you would like to do?

Steve Smith:

What have you thought about doing?

Steve Smith:

There's a lot of different choices.

Steve Smith:

Not everybody needs to do everything and certainly we should figure

Steve Smith:

out what works best for you.

Steve Smith:

But that's usually that conversational usually opens up the idea.

Steve Smith:

Have you thought about public speaking, because you may have

Steve Smith:

a very interesting business that not too many people know about.

Steve Smith:

That's a great way to get that word out to your target audience, to let

Steve Smith:

them know a little more about what you do and why you might be unique from

Steve Smith:

the other selections that people have.

Johnny:

Yeah, I will often be heard saying that public speaking and presentation

Johnny:

skills, which are not necessarily the same thing or they very, very, very similar

Johnny:

that they are a critical leadership skill.

Johnny:

Would you agree?

Steve Smith:

Yes, because I think leadership at its basic core, is

Steve Smith:

having the clarity about where, what you want as an end result,

Steve Smith:

where you're going with everything, how best to use your resources.

Steve Smith:

And do you really understand what your audience is looking for?

Steve Smith:

when I get calls to present to organizations or industry

Steve Smith:

associations, my first question is, tell me about the audience.

Steve Smith:

Tell me what they're expecting and a true leader is interested in the team

Steve Smith:

in the group, the people that he or she are, they're guiding, they want to

Steve Smith:

know what are these people expecting?

Steve Smith:

Where are they coming from?

Steve Smith:

And if you incorporate that same mentality into your public speaking,

Steve Smith:

you're going to hit more home runs than not because at the end of the

Steve Smith:

day, if you're not connecting with that audience, you're going to come off flat.

Steve Smith:

Doesn't matter how good a present presenter you are or

Steve Smith:

how well your slides are done.

Steve Smith:

If you miss the mark on the message, it's not gonna work.

Johnny:

What then in your opinion, are the core important elements that people

Johnny:

need to develop and work on to have that gravitas, that kind of ability to

Johnny:

stand up there and be seen as a leader?

Steve Smith:

Well, the first one I suggest, and this is probably the hardest

Steve Smith:

thing for people to get over is get comfortable looking at yourself speaking.

Steve Smith:

And there's a variety of ways you can do that.

Steve Smith:

You know, zoom, it's a little tough because most of the time we're

Steve Smith:

just seeing ourselves from the kind of, from the shoulders up.

Steve Smith:

But if you have the ability to speak and have somebody film you with a camera,

Steve Smith:

with a video phone get comfortable seeing how you present yourself now,

Steve Smith:

because the only way you can get better is to see what you look like currently.

Steve Smith:

And a lot of people have trouble with that.

Steve Smith:

I'm sure you've been on meetings before on zoom, where you have some people that

Steve Smith:

don't want to turn the camera on it's because they don't want to see themselves.

Steve Smith:

And you have to get over that because you have to know what

Steve Smith:

everybody else is looking at.

Steve Smith:

And if there are things you're doing that are distracting from your message

Steve Smith:

from your presentation, from trying to make that connection with your audience,

Steve Smith:

you have to figure that out early and figure out how to get rid of it or how

Steve Smith:

to do something different to override it.

Steve Smith:

So that's the first thing I would say is get comfortable knowing what you look

Steve Smith:

like when you're in presentation mode.

Steve Smith:

The second thing I think, and this is what people that are new to

Steve Smith:

speaking, tend to trip up on quite quickly how to learn, how to reduce.

Steve Smith:

What it takes for you to get your message across, the first thing that people

Steve Smith:

are going to recognize in someone as inexperienced and really nervous is that

Steve Smith:

they talk excessively they're off track.

Steve Smith:

They're backtracking.

Steve Smith:

They're saying they're using a lot of filler and that can be very

Steve Smith:

aggravating because the average person can hear and process what you say at

Steve Smith:

three times the speed that you see.

Steve Smith:

So you really have to choose your words carefully and be confident

Steve Smith:

enough to deliver your message in as few words as possible.

Steve Smith:

So I work with people a lot on their diction on their delivery,

Steve Smith:

so that they're confident getting the message across without a lot

Steve Smith:

of excess words, which just cause people to just go numb at some point.

Johnny:

Yeah,

Steve Smith:

And then the third thing is just understand your message.

Steve Smith:

We, you can't everybody, can't get up on the stage and talk

Steve Smith:

about any possible topic.

Steve Smith:

You have to really zone in on what you're known for.

Steve Smith:

And that's a real good kind of a self selector because what you want, if

Steve Smith:

organizations or companies call you and want you to come speak to them, you

Steve Smith:

want them to say, gee, we've watched this video, or we've heard this.

Steve Smith:

We know that this is something you're good at.

Steve Smith:

Would you come talk to us about.

Steve Smith:

And that builds confidence and it keeps you in a narrow field of not

Steve Smith:

having to worry about, oh my God, I don't know what to say about that.

Steve Smith:

I'm going to have to go study.

Steve Smith:

I mean, you don't want to go down.

Steve Smith:

that road.

Steve Smith:

So the bottom line is get used to yourself in presentation mode.

Steve Smith:

So you know what you look like, you learn how to deliver without excessive

Steve Smith:

words, and then have a really good narrow set of topics, maybe three or

Steve Smith:

four topics that all blend within your area of expertise that you can talk

Steve Smith:

about that other people know about.

Johnny:

Yeah, I think that's not just good advice for speaking.

Johnny:

That's pretty good advice for online brand and marketing as well

Johnny:

to have those kinds of things.

Johnny:

I think it applies.

Johnny:

And I guess this is really just a, more of an in person way of

Johnny:

branding and marketing yourself and speaking as a part of that, for sure.

Johnny:

Even if you're speaking in a business capacity,

Steve Smith:

Well, and so much of last year's speaking, and certainly

Steve Smith:

I did met much of this money.

Steve Smith:

Was in virtual mode.

Steve Smith:

Because people weren't opening up their facilities.

Steve Smith:

Nobody wanted to meet in the usual conference places or other

Steve Smith:

types of business facilities.

Steve Smith:

So everything was being done online and that in and of itself can have

Steve Smith:

certain amounts of stress for people, because whether you realize it or.

Steve Smith:

There are some benefits to speaking in person, you can draft

Steve Smith:

off of the audience's energy.

Steve Smith:

The first time you get a nice rousing laugh or you get heads nodding, that

Steve Smith:

tell you you're on that right track.

Steve Smith:

You're saying things that are resonate with that helps the speaker that

Steve Smith:

starts getting you into that, that confidence mode that allows you to really

Steve Smith:

kind of turn it on and be yourself.

Steve Smith:

A lot of that goes away in, in virtual mode.

Steve Smith:

And so then you have to really, really be good in order to convey the same

Steve Smith:

kind of energy and enthusiasm in a world where you, for the most part, you can't

Steve Smith:

see anybody that you're talking to.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

I had an interesting start on my virtual speaking and presenting career because

Johnny:

mine started long before COVID and all of this, I started doing online coaching

Johnny:

and training about 10, 11 years ago.

Johnny:

And And I remember I was being trained by some very well-known professional speaker.

Johnny:

A lot of people who a lot of people would have heard of.

Johnny:

And the one thing that kept saying to me over and over again is you have to

Johnny:

bring the energy, you have to turn up.

Johnny:

And I even remember them saying to me, if you can't do it,

Johnny:

we'll find someone who can.

Johnny:

Oops, I'd better work on this then.

Johnny:

But I did and that lit a fire and got me to do it.

Johnny:

And I've always understood since then.

Johnny:

You don't have to be super high energy there.

Johnny:

Some people go really over the top with it, got a bit crazy with it.

Johnny:

Which I think can really turn people off, but just turning your energy up.

Johnny:

A few notches is usually enough, without, hopefully without it becoming like high

Johnny:

speed and a bit crazy and disjointed and disconnected and all those kinds

Johnny:

of things, but keeping it just that bit of higher level energy, what for online

Johnny:

presenting, what is absolutely critical?

Steve Smith:

Well, and that's why I go back to my first point about

Steve Smith:

getting comfortable watching yourself.

Steve Smith:

And certainly in our virtual world today, there's all kinds of ways

Steve Smith:

for you to record yourself, giving a presentation and then going back

Steve Smith:

and looking at it and just asking yourself, cause the camera doesn't lie.

Steve Smith:

It's going to show you exactly what it's recording.

Steve Smith:

And that will allow you to say, gee was my energy there.

Steve Smith:

If I listened to myself, am I motivated?

Steve Smith:

And if you're not, then that's a real, that's a cue that

Steve Smith:

you really need to figure.

Steve Smith:

How to bring up your, maybe your voice, tonality is everything.

Steve Smith:

And if you just learn how to bring it up just enough with the right spots,

Steve Smith:

how to learn, how to pause, how to make your diction and your delivery

Steve Smith:

interesting, as opposed to monotone.

Steve Smith:

All of those things can add to people's desire to engage what you're saying

Steve Smith:

and not start looking at their watch or answering their phone, or, turning their

Steve Smith:

screen off and go into the bathroom.

Steve Smith:

I mean, any number of things people do to just eat up time until it's over.

Steve Smith:

So you really have to be aware of how you come off, how you use hand

Steve Smith:

gestures, facial expressions, all of these things that are part of you that

Steve Smith:

are just accentuated, just a little.

Steve Smith:

Can really go a long way without you coming across looking like maybe

Steve Smith:

this isn't really who he is when he's, when it's in his personal life.

Steve Smith:

Cause when you win, if people get the feeling that what they're seeing on

Steve Smith:

stage or on camera, isn't exactly real.

Steve Smith:

That's, you're dead right there.

Steve Smith:

But at that point they're clicking off.

Steve Smith:

They're going to something else.

Johnny:

Yeah, I had that experience when I very first started out and whilst

Johnny:

it was a bit unpleasant to end up.

Johnny:

Fairly well, trolled on YouTube at the time.

Johnny:

And I took the video down and realized it wasn't very authentic.

Johnny:

And probably the criticism that I got was fair enough.

Johnny:

Although there is a part of me that other people have said, you should

Johnny:

have just left it up, it's a good example of me doing it wrong, but I

Johnny:

can look back and say, yeah, I was trying to be something that wasn't very

Johnny:

authentic to me, but it was what I thought a presenter should be.

Johnny:

What I thought someone doing, well on YouTube should be like and I'm sure

Johnny:

some people may start out that way, but what really brings people in is

Johnny:

you, so the authenticity feeling, not that they need to know everything

Johnny:

about you, but that you are a real person and this isn't just an act.

Steve Smith:

Yes.

Johnny:

Super important stuff.

Johnny:

What, in your opinion would be the key traits then of influence for

Johnny:

a speaker or presenter or anyone?

Steve Smith:

Well, I think whether you're in a leadership role in a business, or

Steve Smith:

you're doing public speaking for your own business or your occupation, I think

Steve Smith:

people need to have a feeling that you are confident in what you're talking about.

Steve Smith:

If you're confident your whole delivery is going to be more at ease,

Steve Smith:

you're going to feel better about.

Steve Smith:

What you're saying.

Steve Smith:

And certainly maybe, if it's a small enough venue and there's

Steve Smith:

an opportunity to feel questions, that's when you really need to be

Steve Smith:

confident about what you're doing.

Steve Smith:

I'll give you an example.

Steve Smith:

Before COVID hit, I was doing quite a bit of local speaking through chambers

Steve Smith:

and other business organizations.

Steve Smith:

Sometimes when you're in a group of maybe 30 or 40 people, which is that's intimate.

Steve Smith:

Alright.

Steve Smith:

I would say something and I would start to see people in the

Steve Smith:

audience pulling their phones out.

Steve Smith:

And I'm like what are they doing?

Steve Smith:

So after the first time this happened we knew we were done.

Steve Smith:

I sat down at a break.

Steve Smith:

I went over to the lady that was coordinating, the whole.

Steve Smith:

And I said, I noticed people in the audience were on their phone.

Steve Smith:

It was like their text messaging or something?

Steve Smith:

She goes, oh no, she goes, they're Googling what you're saying to

Steve Smith:

find out if it's right or not.

Steve Smith:

And I mean, I'm sure she looked at the expression on my face and

Steve Smith:

thought you didn't know that did you.

Steve Smith:

And I know I didn't.

Steve Smith:

And so now what you have to realize if you're going to be authentic and if

Steve Smith:

you're going to come off as an authority in the area that you're speaking, you

Steve Smith:

really got to know your stuff, because people are fact checking you every minute

Steve Smith:

that you're up there talking, and they may not say anything to you directly,

Steve Smith:

but they may go on LinkedIn or Facebook or wherever they saw the advertisement

Steve Smith:

that you were speaking that day.

Steve Smith:

And they may put some comments in that aren't all that nice they're flattering.

Steve Smith:

And so, I tell people, know your stuff really well.

Steve Smith:

Know it well enough that you can accept other points of view without feeling

Steve Smith:

like you're off track and you have to defend yourself, really know your

Steve Smith:

stuff well, and that can only come with practice and with, with delivery and with

Steve Smith:

looking over the message you're taking people through for 10, 20, 30 minutes,

Steve Smith:

however long you're going to be up there.

Steve Smith:

Understand what it is as a primary point you want everybody to walk

Steve Smith:

away from, if you can get that.

Steve Smith:

Everything else you build around.

Steve Smith:

It eventually ends with that and you get a much better presentation, much better.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

I was having a conversation.

Johnny:

I think it was last month on an episode with a guy called Simon Raybould.

Johnny:

And one of the things that we were saying was how it does

Johnny:

undermine people's credibility.

Johnny:

If they're saying stuff that is factually incorrect.

Johnny:

And if you know that it's incorrect and you say people can check this on their

Johnny:

mobiles, but a lot of times there may be people in the audience who just knows.

Johnny:

In the public speaking mode, we often will get a lot of people who

Johnny:

quote the Albert Mehrabian study and they quote it incorrectly.

Johnny:

And they say like, something that I forget what the percentages are now, like 77 or

Johnny:

78% of communication is body language.

Johnny:

Which of course isn't what the study actually says.

Johnny:

And and so when you hear somebody misused it or misquote it it's hard

Johnny:

to take their credibility seriously.

Johnny:

Is that, well, I guess they don't know what they don't know.

Johnny:

But it's hard to trust somebody who wasn't getting some of the basic facts right.

Steve Smith:

Well about about six or seven years ago when I was

Steve Smith:

still building out my business.

Steve Smith:

I had developed quite a few colleagues in various types of businesses.

Steve Smith:

And one guy that had developed a friendship with one day calls

Steve Smith:

me up and he says I'm going to a marketing conference up in LA.

Steve Smith:

And he goes there because I've paid for it,

Steve Smith:

they're offering me a free seat to anybody I want to bring.

Steve Smith:

And I thought, okay, well, I know that, I mean, these guys are trying to fill

Steve Smith:

seats at some point and this conference center, it had about held about 300 people

Steve Smith:

and they wanted to make sure it was full.

Steve Smith:

So I said, sure, I hadn't been to one of these in awhile.

Steve Smith:

I'll go and see what I can learn.

Steve Smith:

And the gentleman that was giving the the conference was actually a very,

Steve Smith:

very well-known figure in the music industry years ago, he was the general

Steve Smith:

manager for Guns and Roses and Journey.

Steve Smith:

And so he had built up quite a fan base for that, and he was trying to morph it

Steve Smith:

into what he called Rockstar Marketing.

Steve Smith:

Okay.

Steve Smith:

And so I went there and, it was, it was well orchestrated.

Steve Smith:

It was your typical, small business conference on marketing techniques

Steve Smith:

and things of that nature.

Steve Smith:

And he handed out everybody a book that was about maybe two and a

Steve Smith:

half inches thick of the binder.

Steve Smith:

So there was a lot of material we were going to go through

Steve Smith:

in that two and a half days.

Steve Smith:

Well, throughout the first day as I'm going through this and he's talking

Steve Smith:

and he's fighting in little tips and techniques cause he wanted people to

Steve Smith:

have actual things that they could work.

Steve Smith:

And I started noticing how much of the information he was conveying was dated.

Steve Smith:

It didn't work that way today.

Steve Smith:

And cause you know, let's face it in the marketing industry, stuff changes rapidly.

Steve Smith:

And what worked, at the end of last year, at the beginning of this year may

Steve Smith:

not work at the beginning of next year.

Steve Smith:

It stuff changes quickly and he's delivering a lot of tips and techniques

Steve Smith:

that I knew in some cases for social media, we're not going to work at all.

Steve Smith:

And so at lunch, I got hold of my friend.

Steve Smith:

I said, how well do you know this guy?

Steve Smith:

And he says, oh, I'm in his mastermind group.

Steve Smith:

And we've done all these great things.

Steve Smith:

And I said, well, most of the stuff he's talked about this morning, isn't actually

Steve Smith:

real or current, it's dated it's stuff.

Steve Smith:

That's that doesn't work as well as it used to do three or four years ago.

Steve Smith:

And, he just wasn't willing to hear it.

Steve Smith:

He was just too much embedded in this guy's persona and

Steve Smith:

connections and things like that.

Steve Smith:

But I walked away from that whole conference realizing if you're going

Steve Smith:

to seek information and strategies and tips and be able to improve in

Steve Smith:

areas like marketing or like, sales,

Steve Smith:

you really better check out the gurus that you're following, because a lot of

Steve Smith:

these folks, they've done a super job of building a persona that people just love

Steve Smith:

to attach themselves to and course go to seminars and spend thousands of dollars

Steve Smith:

on books and tapes and videos and stuff.

Steve Smith:

You got to make sure these folks really know what they're talking.

Johnny:

Yeah, it's funny because I regularly get recommendations.

Johnny:

And I mentioned to you that I asked my guests for.

Johnny:

And sometimes the recommendations will be from people who I think are snake oil

Johnny:

salespeople or charlatans in the industry.

Johnny:

But, it's well, that's my opinion.

Johnny:

It's not necessarily to they don't share that opinion, but if there was time

Johnny:

to go into it, I would explain why.

Johnny:

That opinion of them and it hasn't just come from nowhere.

Johnny:

But yeah, it's interesting.

Johnny:

Everyone has their own different perspectives.

Johnny:

Sometimes even when you do have the data in front of you, if it conflicts

Johnny:

too much, if you get into this level of cognitive dissonance where they rate

Johnny:

just conflicts too much with something you either really want to believe, or

Johnny:

you've just believed for so long, or maybe you're even locked into believing it

Johnny:

because you might have based part of your

Johnny:

career around

Steve Smith:

Absolutely.

Johnny:

then you're not going to be willing to change or take.

Steve Smith:

Yeah.

Steve Smith:

Yes.

Johnny:

It's a fascinating area.

Johnny:

Neuroscience is the study of neuroscience is developing super fast.

Johnny:

And whilst it's still a, an early days industry, we're learning so much more.

Johnny:

And so much of it that's coming out is debunking a lot of the stuff that people

Johnny:

have been teaching as common thought or as reality for a number of years.

Johnny:

So

Steve Smith:

Well, and that kind of connects with something that

Steve Smith:

also that I find some of the younger people that I coach.

Steve Smith:

Many times there, when I talked to them about certain behaviors, certain mindsets,

Steve Smith:

getting yourself in a certain way so that you show up authentically all the time.

Steve Smith:

You've created a persona for yourself.

Steve Smith:

Many times they're like they have nowhere to start, so I'll tell them let's do.

Steve Smith:

And this concept, I didn't invent this.

Steve Smith:

This has been around for a long time, it's called patterning.

Steve Smith:

Find someone in your industry that you could serve as maybe you're a

Steve Smith:

mentor because you like their style.

Steve Smith:

Maybe it resonates with you.

Steve Smith:

Maybe you get the sense that you could be like them.

Steve Smith:

That their personality is somewhat in the same box as yours and start watching them

Steve Smith:

start listening to them, seeing how they present things, what they talk about,

Steve Smith:

where they tend to take their message, how they present and pattern yourself

Steve Smith:

off of them, use them as the benchmark for what you want to be.

Steve Smith:

That's a great way to build yourself up and really become the

Steve Smith:

professional that you want to be.

Steve Smith:

If you're at the early stage of your career, you just have to make

Steve Smith:

sure you do enough vetting, so you're following the right person.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

I see the I think I've heard it referred to as modeling.

Johnny:

But it's very much the same kind of thing.

Johnny:

And it is that thing as well, having to find that line between not just trying

Johnny:

to impersonate somebody about you, trying to find the, be more like them in

Johnny:

certain ways, but still yourself without losing who you are in the process.

Johnny:

And that's something that I think people often have a challenge with,

Johnny:

especially in the earlier days of it, of not losing themselves.

Johnny:

And so you see a lot of people trying to be the next Tony Robbins, and

Johnny:

they're going on stage and they're trying to be Tony and it's like,

Johnny:

That's not necessarily their authentic energy and that's not who they are.

Johnny:

So yeah, unless they are a clone of Tony, then

Steve Smith:

Well,

Johnny:

he's not much of a chance,

Steve Smith:

And I followed Tony Robbins off and on for a lot of years.

Steve Smith:

I mean, early in my career, my company had invited him to a national sales

Steve Smith:

meeting to give a presentation and he was much, much younger than he is now.

Steve Smith:

but.

Steve Smith:

When you talk about modeling and that's a really good term,

Steve Smith:

modeling because you're right.

Steve Smith:

You're taking the essence.

Steve Smith:

You're not actually trying to copy them for yourself.

Steve Smith:

It's important to really take a look at the lifespan of that person that

Steve Smith:

you're looking at because Tony Robbins today is very different than he was.

Steve Smith:

40 years ago when he was starting out, when he was first starting out, the

Steve Smith:

guy was like on fire all the time.

Steve Smith:

He was jumping around, he had energy.

Steve Smith:

He just unbelievable.

Steve Smith:

You got tired looking at him sometimes and today he's a little

Steve Smith:

more measured in his delivery.

Steve Smith:

Still has that spark still has that insight and that stuff that people really

Steve Smith:

love, But his whole delivery is different.

Steve Smith:

So if you find somebody that you really like, and you'd like to

Steve Smith:

model yourself after them, just make sure you their own trajectory.

Steve Smith:

So you know, which part of them you're prepared to duplicate.

Johnny:

But they used to be a show when I was a kid and I P people of a

Johnny:

certain generation and maybe it was even on a, in USA, it was called Joe 90.

Johnny:

And it was like, one of these puppet shows.

Johnny:

It was Jerry Anderson puppet show, like the Thunderbirds kind of thing.

Johnny:

And this, there still a kid.

Johnny:

And his dad was a scientist and he had these special glasses that it

Johnny:

has to sit in this thing and he would have the skills and knowledge of an

Johnny:

airline pilot, a fighter pilot or something like that, or a secret agent.

Johnny:

Plugged into him and every time he'd put these glasses on,

Johnny:

he'd have all of that stuff.

Johnny:

It's obviously it's a kids stuff of it but that's a good way to think about it in

Johnny:

terms of, this is something you do want to be able to put on and take off, at least

Johnny:

in that sense of you, you just want to be looking at the skills and the traits and

Johnny:

the but the, how to the kind of knowledge base and things like that, that you need

Johnny:

to be able to deliver to be more like that, rather than trying to actually do

Johnny:

more of a invasion of the body snatchers kind of thing, and take over their life,

Steve Smith:

that's good.

Johnny:

Excellent.

Johnny:

What do you think helps to give people?

Johnny:

I think you've referred to it as clout more clout in that, in their

Johnny:

leadership, in their presentations.

Steve Smith:

Okay.

Steve Smith:

Clout is an interesting term.

Steve Smith:

Because if you actually look it up in the dictionary, there's two

Steve Smith:

very distinct definitions for it.

Steve Smith:

One, you want to try to emulate the other one.

Steve Smith:

You want to stay away from them.

Steve Smith:

The first one is you.

Steve Smith:

That you've hit somebody on the head.

Steve Smith:

You know, it's a very old term for clouting.

Steve Smith:

Somebody smacking them on the head.

Steve Smith:

Obviously we don't want to go there, but when you start looking at the more

Steve Smith:

influential definition of it, it's really it's having a, and I'm going to use

Steve Smith:

the word again, a persona almost like a reputation that people already know that

Steve Smith:

if they can somehow get you in their world or if they can become associated with you,

Steve Smith:

that their world is going to be better because you have the confidence, you

Steve Smith:

have the know-how, you have the ability to get things done with other people.

Steve Smith:

There's just a certain thing about when you show up good things happen,

Steve Smith:

that's clout in the business world.

Steve Smith:

And if you can develop that over time, it does wonderful things

Steve Smith:

for you in terms of partnerships, opportunities, any things that other

Steve Smith:

people might struggle for weeks, months, and years trying to develop,

Steve Smith:

you just naturally become a magnet for, for things that

Steve Smith:

you want now, along the way.

Steve Smith:

And I've coached people in the past who actually have achieved this and

Steve Smith:

realize that look, not everything is rosy there's consequences.

Steve Smith:

A lot of times you get unwanted invites for things that you

Steve Smith:

really don't want to deal with.

Steve Smith:

So you have to learn after a while, how to manage that reputation

Steve Smith:

so that you ward off things that are just not right for you.

Steve Smith:

And if you don't like saying no all the time to everybody

Steve Smith:

but that's what clout is.

Steve Smith:

It's that ability to almost have your reputation, your personality

Steve Smith:

proceed you in the room.

Steve Smith:

And when you get to that point, it, it really does.

Steve Smith:

If you're in the kind of business where your face is the

Steve Smith:

business, that's what mine is.

Steve Smith:

It really does help open doors that otherwise you

Steve Smith:

would struggle to get through.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

And that's important.

Johnny:

I am.

Johnny:

I'm working with Chris Ducker if you've ever heard of Chris he's he's the

Johnny:

guy who wrote rise of the Youpreneur and that's very much about building a

Johnny:

business off your, around you, around your personality, your brand, your

Johnny:

expertise and having that kind of thing, which is what we're talking about here.

Johnny:

What are the things, what sort of point do you get to a level where you

Johnny:

know, that, that starting to work?

Johnny:

I, what are the things and what are the things that would be indicators?

Steve Smith:

Okay.

Steve Smith:

And this I've had this happen many, many times in my own coaching practice.

Steve Smith:

And it's what happens when I'm working with somebody and they

Steve Smith:

recognize that they have a deficiency in maybe in communication.

Steve Smith:

In in relationship building there's just something that

Steve Smith:

they've never really done well.

Steve Smith:

So as a result, they just shy away from it.

Steve Smith:

At some point they rise up in the organization.

Steve Smith:

I realized I can't shy away from this anymore.

Steve Smith:

I have to figure out how to overcome this.

Steve Smith:

So we start talking about what it is.

Steve Smith:

That's holding them back.

Steve Smith:

What skills and abilities and specifically what kind of mindset

Steve Smith:

that they have to have in order to project a new and different person?

Steve Smith:

And of course, it always ends up coming around to where they say,

Steve Smith:

well, how do I know if it's working?

Steve Smith:

And I tell them, don't worry about that.

Steve Smith:

It will show up and tell you.

Steve Smith:

So, as an example, and I've had clients actually call me up and just say, I gave

Steve Smith:

this presentation and I had people come up to me and say, this was tremendous.

Steve Smith:

We have noticed a significant change in you over the last several months.

Steve Smith:

People are very quick to criticize, but not so quick to, to tell

Steve Smith:

you what you're doing well.

Steve Smith:

But when you get those, that's a clear indication that you have

Steve Smith:

made a course correction that other people are picking up on.

Steve Smith:

So what I tell people is figure out who you are at your core, figure out how to

Steve Smith:

be as authentic and have as much integrity with delivering that up as possible.

Steve Smith:

Do what you say you're going to do.

Steve Smith:

All right.

Steve Smith:

And over time, people around, you will start to notice that change, especially

Steve Smith:

if it's fairly significant from the way you've been operating in the past.

Steve Smith:

And eventually when it hits home with others, they will find a way to tell you.

Steve Smith:

And when you get that feedback, especially if it's unsolicited, Your gold.

Steve Smith:

That's the best feedback you can get is when people just naturally come up to

Steve Smith:

you and say, we've been watching you, and we're really impressed with XYZ.

Steve Smith:

And if XYZ is what you've been working on, you know, you're getting there.

Steve Smith:

You're moving in the Right direction.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Do you ever get people who are very unclear on.

Johnny:

Who they really are and what their authenticity is.

Johnny:

And if you do, how do you help them find that?

Steve Smith:

I have had a few people that.

Steve Smith:

have been stuck in that mode.

Steve Smith:

And typically what I find, and it's not part of where I like my coaching

Steve Smith:

to go, but sometimes it goes here.

Steve Smith:

What we find out sometimes is that people are just in the wrong.

Steve Smith:

They've been trying to convince people around them and their business and their

Steve Smith:

company and their marketplace, that this is who they are, and this is what they do.

Steve Smith:

And this is what they love.

Steve Smith:

This is their passion.

Steve Smith:

And then all of a sudden through very guided conversations, because our

Steve Smith:

coaching sessions are very, free space.

Steve Smith:

You can say whatever you want, it's not going anywhere else.

Steve Smith:

And so people now wake up and they say, you know what?

Steve Smith:

I really don't enjoy this the way I thought I was going to.

Steve Smith:

This thing over here is what I really love.

Steve Smith:

And so now the question becomes, what do you want to do with that?

Steve Smith:

Do you want to actually move into a different occupation at 48 years old?

Johnny:

Hmm.

Steve Smith:

Or do you want to figure out how to make the one you're in now?

Steve Smith:

The one you invested in highly successful?

Steve Smith:

And so then they have to come up with that decision.

Steve Smith:

I try to tell people, passionate, there's a lot of discussion about passion.

Steve Smith:

If you're going to be good and you gotta be passionate, people have to feel it.

Steve Smith:

Passion, passions, great passions fuel.

Steve Smith:

It drives your energy.

Steve Smith:

It's not always the thing that you should be spending your life's work on.

Steve Smith:

I mean, I love riding motorcycles, my wife and I tour on motorcycle

Steve Smith:

on our motorcycle a lot.

Steve Smith:

So I'm passionate about riding.

Steve Smith:

I have no interest in, in, in having a motorcycle repair shop It's a hobby that

Steve Smith:

I love, but I like to keep it separate from my business professional life.

Steve Smith:

So it's really a matter of figuring out what it what is

Steve Smith:

your internal GPS telling you?

Steve Smith:

Where do you find yourself showing up in a repeated fashion that maybe

Steve Smith:

you weren't pre-thinking about?

Steve Smith:

You were just there.

Steve Smith:

Let's figure out what you should be doing, or maybe what you need to do

Steve Smith:

differently within the job you have.

Steve Smith:

And get you to that point because once you really know and you feel it internally,

Steve Smith:

it's much easier to bring that out, that authenticity to everybody else around you.

Steve Smith:

It's when you're trying to force something from the inside out, and everybody around

Steve Smith:

you is saying, nah, I'm not buying that.

Steve Smith:

That's it?

Steve Smith:

That doesn't seem real.

Steve Smith:

That's the problem.

Johnny:

I can remember doing an exercise in a speaking training one

Johnny:

time that was all about authenticity.

Johnny:

And it was actually based on someone else's work, the company that were

Johnny:

teaching it, where it got asked to stop teaching it, cause it wasn't their stuff.

Johnny:

But that aside it was this thing of essentially turning around someone

Johnny:

saying, this is me, this is who I am.

Johnny:

And people would keep looking at you directly into your eyes and

Johnny:

you have to keep saying this.

Johnny:

Until they believed you essentially.

Johnny:

And what the point they believed you they, you turn around and

Johnny:

it was a very raw feeling.

Johnny:

Having people staring deep into your eyes and.

Johnny:

Really sort of being in this sort of, this is me, this is who I am.

Johnny:

And then thinking, well, what is it about?

Johnny:

And you can just say those lines or how I'm saying it over tiering.

Johnny:

And the more you repeat that, I think at some point things do start

Johnny:

to click or you start to feel a certain energy in a certain shift.

Johnny:

It was an interesting exercise that also really helped people

Johnny:

start to recognize how important their authenticity is in that believability.

Johnny:

I got a lot from, I got a lot from that in, there is many thing that people

Johnny:

need to be able to look into your eyes and see, oh yeah you're really on this.

Johnny:

This is what you mean.

Johnny:

This is true for you.

Johnny:

I think you absolutely have to believe in what you're selling.

Johnny:

You might not be selling a product or a course or anything, but you

Johnny:

have to believe in what you're selling, even if it's an idea or.

Steve Smith:

Well, exactly three years after I started coaching, I was invited

Steve Smith:

to a very intimate kind of day-long, I don't even know what you call it.

Steve Smith:

It was like 12 of us that went to this horse farm.

Steve Smith:

And we were exposed to this concept, which I hadn't really

Steve Smith:

heard of prior called congruency.

Steve Smith:

And it's the basis for authenticity because congruency means if you, who

Steve Smith:

you think you are and how you feel and what you believe on the inside, isn't

Steve Smith:

what you're projecting on the outside,

Steve Smith:

people may not be able to put their finger on it and really

Steve Smith:

say, okay, that's the problem.

Steve Smith:

What happens is they get this feeling that there's something weird going on here.

Steve Smith:

And I can't figure out what it is.

Steve Smith:

I just know that I need to back away.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Steve Smith:

And once you start to learn how to manage that and make

Steve Smith:

sure that what's on the inside is being projected on the outside,

Steve Smith:

that's where your authenticity goes up.

Steve Smith:

That's when your ability to get people to recognize that you have a certain

Steve Smith:

amount of authority and expertise in the field you're in is real.

Steve Smith:

Because everything you're doing is coming from the inside.

Steve Smith:

It's not, you're making your out your exterior to look like

Steve Smith:

what you want it to look like.

Steve Smith:

It has to come from someplace.

Steve Smith:

It's not coming from the inside.

Steve Smith:

You're going to get incongruity.

Steve Smith:

And that's what causes people to always feel like I can't break through.

Steve Smith:

You know, it doesn't matter what I do.

Steve Smith:

I'm not getting the reaction I need.

Steve Smith:

That's usually what the problem is.

Steve Smith:

Everybody else around them has already figured out there's something wrong

Steve Smith:

with this and we're not buying.

Johnny:

Yeah, that's an interesting way to think about it.

Johnny:

I like the idea of congruency leading to integrity and and the

Johnny:

what's the word I'm looking for is

Steve Smith:

the authenticity.

Johnny:

Thank you.

Johnny:

Flying straight out of my brain today.

Johnny:

One thing that you said that I wholeheartedly agree with, that you said

Johnny:

when we spoke before the show was about how important practic is as being the

Johnny:

way to get there is that also how you develop this congruence and authenticity.

Steve Smith:

Yeah.

Steve Smith:

practice for me is the, that's the next logical kind of livable step for

Steve Smith:

people that are perfecting what they do.

Steve Smith:

Whether it's leading an organization, whether it's public speaking, whether

Steve Smith:

it's anything else that requires an ongoing relationship building with

Steve Smith:

people in your environment, in your community marketplace, whatever

Steve Smith:

geographic sphere you're trying to define,

Johnny:

Yeah.

Steve Smith:

the practice element has to come in once you've defined

Steve Smith:

who you are and what you do.

Steve Smith:

You know what's, what is your role?

Steve Smith:

You'd be amazed at how many people that I work with.

Steve Smith:

And they're at very high levels in companies and we'll have these

Steve Smith:

conversations and I'll say, tell me what your role is really there for?

Steve Smith:

and of course, they go to the HR book and they give me their resume

Steve Smith:

and all this kind of, I said no, I don't want to hear that.

Steve Smith:

Tell me what your, if I took your roll away, how would your company suffer?

Steve Smith:

And sometimes they can't tell me that.

Steve Smith:

And so then you have to say, all Right.

Steve Smith:

there's the problem.

Steve Smith:

You're in a role that probably serves something really valuable for this

Steve Smith:

company, but you haven't really dove into it and made it your own and

Steve Smith:

actually extended the value of that role to the rest of the company.

Steve Smith:

You're kind of a place sitter.

Steve Smith:

And so when people are in that situation, the real idea said, let's figure out how

Steve Smith:

to maximise how you show up in that role.

Steve Smith:

And once you know what that looks like, it may be a little foreign at

Steve Smith:

first that's when practice comes in, that's when we have to start building

Steve Smith:

a routine and rituals to help you internalize and develop the belief

Steve Smith:

system that supports that role.

Steve Smith:

And it's the daily practice.

Steve Smith:

It's doing things it's repetition, it's over and over again.

Steve Smith:

And for some people it's a lot of things.

Steve Smith:

It's a lot of it's a lot of mantras, it's saying things that you want to

Steve Smith:

internalize because you already know them.

Steve Smith:

You just, it's not secondhand.

Steve Smith:

It's like it's not muscle memory yet.

Steve Smith:

And So that's where the practice helps to take what you've determined

Steve Smith:

is real on the inside, and have it come out seamlessly and flawlessly

Steve Smith:

and with a lot of confidence and not ego-driven confidence, I taught it,

Steve Smith:

I call it inner confidence that it's mixed with a little bit of humility.

Steve Smith:

You're confident, you know what you do well, you do it well all the

Steve Smith:

time, but, but it's not boastful.

Steve Smith:

You're able to pick yourself apart or take criticism, in, in its

Steve Smith:

proper fashion, because inwardly, you know, you do this well, sure.

Steve Smith:

We can all improve.

Steve Smith:

We can all, take little tweaks here and there and modify what we do.

Steve Smith:

But at its base, you know, that you do what you do really well.

Steve Smith:

And when people get to that point and you get in this daily

Steve Smith:

routine, that's how you stay there.

Steve Smith:

That's what keeps you from falling off the wagon.

Steve Smith:

And, cause you, look, you hear this all the time.

Steve Smith:

They're entertainers athletes, people that are in the public eye,

Steve Smith:

they're riding high and all of a sudden something happens to them.

Steve Smith:

They go away and you don't hear about them for you.

Steve Smith:

And all of a sudden they pop up someplace else.

Steve Smith:

It's because people allow their heads to start changing the message about who they

Steve Smith:

are and they lose sight of what they're doing and then they're down and out.

Johnny:

Right.

Johnny:

So it becomes more of a thing of trying to impress and trying to keep your ego

Johnny:

fed rather than serving rather than caring about how other people feel or

Johnny:

the emotions that you might be generating or stimulating in them is more of a it's

Johnny:

that inner focus rather than that to focus or it's the wrong kind of inner focus.

Steve Smith:

and I wish I could tell you the guru that coined this phrase.

Steve Smith:

But somebody of that ilk many years ago said, if you want, if you

Steve Smith:

want to be successful, help other people be, achieve their success.

Steve Smith:

That's paraphrasing it, but if you're really confident and this goes back

Steve Smith:

to public speaking too if you really know what your audience is looking

Steve Smith:

for, give it to them, figure out a way to just wow them and make them feel

Steve Smith:

like that the hour they spent with you is the best hour they've spent

Steve Smith:

all week and it will come back to you.

Steve Smith:

So it's all about taking what you know, and figuring out how to help

Steve Smith:

other people be successful with that.

Steve Smith:

And you'll always have an audience you'll always have an audience.

Johnny:

Well, one of the key things, I think, especially in speaking may, maybe

Johnny:

not always in the us or business settings, although I think it's still relevant

Johnny:

is the ability to take people on an emotional journey to engender particular

Johnny:

feelings and emotions within them.

Johnny:

And one of the things that you said that stood out,

Johnny:

when we chatted before it was about having this natural ability to help people feel

Johnny:

important to me bit more about what you mean by that and what that looks like?

Steve Smith:

Well, that really works well in more of individual settings.

Steve Smith:

Let's say you're going to a conference or something and you're getting a

Steve Smith:

chance to meet a lot of people that

Steve Smith:

you don't know.

Steve Smith:

To me, the best thing you can do in those kinds of environments

Steve Smith:

is immediately take control.

Steve Smith:

Of the dialogue, not by telling them who you are and all the great things you've

Steve Smith:

done and, giving them a business card and, lapsing into your own sales pitch.

Steve Smith:

The best thing to do is show immediate interest in.

Steve Smith:

Ask them something that gets them to think about themselves.

Steve Smith:

One of the questions I find really interesting is after you figure out what

Steve Smith:

somebody does, they tell you the name of their company or their occupation.

Steve Smith:

Gee, that's interesting.

Steve Smith:

How did you decide to go into that line of work?

Steve Smith:

Word choice really matters to this kind of thing.

Steve Smith:

How did you decide to go into that line of work?

Steve Smith:

And all of a sudden people are just like, oh wow, this is really good.

Steve Smith:

I get to talk about myself.

Steve Smith:

And you get to learn about their motivations and the things that are

Steve Smith:

not just surface with them, but really things that allowed them to make really

Steve Smith:

important choices in their life, which got them to where they are today.

Steve Smith:

You can have a three or four minute conversation and when you

Steve Smith:

leave that, they will think you're the smartest person in the room.

Steve Smith:

And all you've done is sat there and ask them a question to open them up

Steve Smith:

and spent time listening to them.

Steve Smith:

And if you really want to build this gravitas of someone who is influential,

Steve Smith:

just be interesting and be interested.

Steve Smith:

And if you can do that, a lot of people have trouble with that because they're

Steve Smith:

like, oh, I'm at this sales conference.

Steve Smith:

I've got to, I got to hand out 50 business cards.

Steve Smith:

I've got to get leads.

Steve Smith:

If I don't come back with a client, I'm going to be in trouble.

Steve Smith:

No, that it's, those conferences are not about that.

Steve Smith:

They're about relationships.

Steve Smith:

And the best thing you can do is leave an impression with everybody else that you're

Steve Smith:

somebody that they want to get to know.

Steve Smith:

And here's the benchmark for that, earlier on we were talking about how do you

Steve Smith:

figure out when you've achieved clout?

Steve Smith:

Well, how do you figure out when this is working?

Steve Smith:

It's the number of times people will send you emails after it's over and

Steve Smith:

say, wow, I really enjoy talking with you, talking with you, right.

Steve Smith:

You, instead of thing,

Johnny:

Yeah.

Steve Smith:

Can we meet, can we have coffee?

Steve Smith:

Can we get on zoom, whatever it happens.

Steve Smith:

And that happens all the time.

Steve Smith:

And that's a great way because now that they've got this interesting understanding

Steve Smith:

of who you are and you haven't said a word yet, so there's a lot of influence

Steve Smith:

that can be relayed in that one simple technique of, Hey, just tell me how you

Steve Smith:

decided to get into this and then just listen to what the hell they have to say.

Johnny:

Hmm.

Johnny:

It's an interesting, almost paradox for me of, in a lot of professional

Johnny:

environments that a lot of the people who get on and do very one of the people

Johnny:

who talk most about what they're doing.

Johnny:

And it's say, oh look what I've done.

Johnny:

And wow, I'm great at this and the people who pipe up the most because

Johnny:

often they're being noticed that I'm perhaps just because it's easier to

Johnny:

notice and not have to dive deep as okay, well, these people are

Johnny:

showing me what they're doing.

Johnny:

So clearly they have drive.

Johnny:

They have the intent and stuff.

Johnny:

Whereas other people who may be really good at their job and perhaps more

Johnny:

introverted keeping their heads down, doing the work expect, expecting

Johnny:

to be rewarded, but not actually speaking up on getting that, but in

Johnny:

networking environments and in this all great to world, I think if you

Johnny:

go out into those environments with this, Hey, look at me, I'm amazing.

Johnny:

Look what I've done and I can do this, this and this, and here's my

Johnny:

business card and come away with.

Johnny:

Most people, unless they're very green.

Johnny:

I think most people are going to back away from that.

Johnny:

Like you say, and I think, hang on a minute, this is a bit needy.

Johnny:

This is a bit, this is a bit intense.

Johnny:

Whereas the people who come in are much more concerned about their

Johnny:

relationship and say, oh, tell me more about what you do and showing

Johnny:

real interest and seeing if there's

Johnny:

any crossovers or maybe I can't help you, but I, you know what you should speak

Johnny:

to my friend and, um, or I'd love to introduce a business to in the future.

Johnny:

If I find him just having those relationships, like you say,

Johnny:

that's so much more powerful there.

Johnny:

So it's interesting that's not necessarily the same in corporate environments, a

Johnny:

lot of the time, but in the business networking world and more entrepreneurial

Johnny:

environments, that is the case.

Steve Smith:

Well, the folks that show up as you've described big egos, talk

Steve Smith:

about themselves, their accomplishments.

Steve Smith:

They do a lot of name dropping the people that are most impressed

Steve Smith:

with those folks are them.

Steve Smith:

I mean, they're, they're all impressed in their head about who they are.

Steve Smith:

Many times people, like you said, if they're green to networking,

Steve Smith:

they might be kind of odd about who they just spent time talking to.

Steve Smith:

But most folks that have been around a while just recognize that for what it is

Steve Smith:

and I, and if I'm working with somebody that has, that's like that, that can be

Steve Smith:

a very tough engagement to have because you have to be able to get them outside

Steve Smith:

themselves to see how they're coming off,

Steve Smith:

without completely destroying the base that created that ego,

Johnny:

Yeah, it doesn't make them a bad person.

Johnny:

It may be, it's just a bad approach and one that they don't, like you said,

Johnny:

they don't recognize what's going on.

Johnny:

And sometimes it takes a bit, just a bit more work to get past that

Johnny:

impression of them and see, there, there is a real person under that.

Johnny:

I mean, you have to work a bit harder to get to it sometimes.

Johnny:

Unfortunately.

Steve Smith:

Yeah,

Johnny:

Steve, I really enjoyed the conversation.

Johnny:

I know we have to ask them to spend time when we start drawing things to a close,

Johnny:

but it has been really interesting.

Johnny:

I've learned some things talking to you and it's been very valuable.

Johnny:

I want to ask for the benefit of our audience, if they want to find

Johnny:

out more about you, what you teach and kind of stuff you maybe share

Johnny:

online, where's the best place for them to come and connect with you?

Steve Smith:

The best place if they want to learn more about my approach

Steve Smith:

and the various things I can do with clients is to just to go to my website.

Steve Smith:

It's growth source coaching.com.

Steve Smith:

and

Steve Smith:

there I have a lot of videos and I have a lot of information.

Steve Smith:

I try to give people.

Steve Smith:

As many things that they can try on their own and work with

Steve Smith:

experiment on their own as possible.

Steve Smith:

And because what I find is a lot of times people say, wow, this

Steve Smith:

is really good, but I don't know if I can go this journey myself.

Steve Smith:

So they'll come back and we'll talk about working together.

Steve Smith:

But if they're the kind of, the DIY folks that that can, take a tip

Steve Smith:

and run with it, come going to get everything you can't off the site,

Steve Smith:

because that's why I put it up there.

Steve Smith:

I'm also on LinkedIn, so you can connect with me on there.

Steve Smith:

It's coach Steve, or just Steve Smith.

Steve Smith:

I know there's a lot of Steve Smith, but you'll find because

Steve Smith:

my picture is on there,

Johnny:

but there's a lot of John Balls as well.

Johnny:

Don't worry.

Johnny:

I have the same problem.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Great.

Johnny:

I definitely recommend it.

Johnny:

So, I mean, if you, if people haven't already got that impression then, which

Johnny:

I'm sure they will have that you clearly know a lot and you're someone who can help

Johnny:

them and and give them a lot of expertise and share your experience as well.

Johnny:

I like to always ask my guests for a book recommendation.

Johnny:

What would it be from you maybe related to what we've been talking about?

Johnny:

Maybe unrelated, maybe just both that you've loved or that's had an impact

Johnny:

on you, but what's your recommendation?

Steve Smith:

Okay.

Steve Smith:

And I'm going to, if you don't mind, I'm going to give you two quick ones

Steve Smith:

for people in completely different.

Steve Smith:

Okay.

Steve Smith:

Here's the first one.

Steve Smith:

If you're in a small business, solo preneur kind of occupation

Steve Smith:

and you have to rely a lot on networking and meeting people and

Steve Smith:

presenting, and coming off really well

Steve Smith:

first time out this book is called Convince Them In 90 Seconds.

Steve Smith:

it's written by a gentleman named Nicholas Boothman and he does speaking.

Steve Smith:

I mean, he's a known quantity out there.

Steve Smith:

It's not just somebody that wrote a book and went away.

Steve Smith:

But this is a great book because he really tees up what it takes to make

Steve Smith:

immediate contact with people, build rapport and have them like you write off.

Steve Smith:

So for a lot of people that struggle with just, I don't want people not to like me.

Steve Smith:

It's a great book.

Steve Smith:

You should read that.

Steve Smith:

You'll learn a lot about just how to show up and how to deliver yourself.

Steve Smith:

The other book that I recommend for people that have been in management

Steve Smith:

or leadership roles, fairly high up in companies for quite a while, who was

Steve Smith:

written by one of the kind of master coaches here in the United States.

Steve Smith:

His name is Marshall Goldsmith.

Steve Smith:

He's written a lot of books, but this one I think was either his

Steve Smith:

first or second out of the shoot.

Steve Smith:

And it's called What Got You Here, Won't Get You There.

Steve Smith:

And in his professional life, he interviewed thousands of executives

Steve Smith:

around the world that he had worked.

Steve Smith:

And he chronicles 23 different situations that executives get themselves into

Steve Smith:

when they're interfacing with their team, with their company, with other

Steve Smith:

people, in their circle that they do that

Steve Smith:

are off-putting that cause people to either, kind of step back or

Steve Smith:

maintain distance or maybe lose track.

Steve Smith:

So it, I thought it was a fabulous read because you can look at that

Steve Smith:

and say, oh my God, I've done that.

Steve Smith:

Oh, I've done that.

Steve Smith:

In fact, he even has a little test in the back of the book where you

Steve Smith:

can figure out how many of these things that he's talking about

Steve Smith:

you actually done.

Steve Smith:

And it's a real eye-opener in terms of, I don't need more education.

Steve Smith:

I don't need more experience.

Steve Smith:

What I need to

Steve Smith:

do is tune up my professional interaction skills because

Steve Smith:

that's, what's holding me back.

Johnny:

Some great recommendations Marshall Goldsmith is definitely

Johnny:

a very, well-known very well-known name in the world of coaching and

Johnny:

some books you recommend today that I will be adding to my must read list.

Johnny:

I appreciate that.

Johnny:

If there is just one thing that you would like to leave people to stay, and

Johnny:

maybe the one thing they take away from this conversation, what would it be?

Steve Smith:

Get to know yourself like everybody around you knows you.

Steve Smith:

Get that almost I kinda like to, it's probably not the best way to describe

Steve Smith:

it, but it's kind of like having an out of body experience, where you're in a

Steve Smith:

dream and you're looking in you're down there with everybody else, and you're

Steve Smith:

seeing yourself as people around you see you, if you can develop the ability and

Steve Smith:

the perspective to look at yourself that way you will save yourself all kinds of

Steve Smith:

professional and personal trauma because you're continually doing things that

Steve Smith:

don't serve yourself well, and yet everybody around you sees what's going

Steve Smith:

on, but very few people will actually step up and say, Hey, Steve, I don't

Steve Smith:

know if you know this, but when you do that, everybody cringes, everybody

Steve Smith:

just wants to leave the room, learn how to look at yourself the same way.

Steve Smith:

And if you can develop that ability.

Steve Smith:

And a lot of times it's not just sitting back and say, oh gee, what did I do?

Steve Smith:

Right.

Steve Smith:

And wrong.

Steve Smith:

Sometimes it's asking other people in your immediate circle that you really value.

Steve Smith:

Gee, you just saw what I did.

Steve Smith:

How could I have done that better?

Steve Smith:

And just learn to accept feedback on a regular basis, either direct

Steve Smith:

like that or through observation.

Steve Smith:

And if you can really, really hone that in and get comfortable with that, you will

Steve Smith:

be amazed at how fast you will develop yourself in the direction you want to go.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

And it's important to move past that idea that feedback is criticism.

Johnny:

It's actually food for growth, and I think that's been great.

Johnny:

Some great advice that you give there as well.

Johnny:

And a great point to end things today.

Johnny:

Steve Smith, it's been a real pleasure speaking to you and a great show.

Johnny:

Steve, I really appreciate you coming and being my guest on the Speaking Influence.

Johnny:

Thank you.

Steve Smith:

Johnny.

Steve Smith:

Thanks for having me.

Steve Smith:

This has been a great conversation.

Steve Smith:

I really appreciate it.

Johnny:

Thanks for tuning in.

Johnny:

I hope you've enjoyed the show.

Johnny:

A special thank you to our sponsors, Brand Face.

Johnny:

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Johnny:

learn about brand face.com.

Johnny:

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Johnny:

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Johnny:

And we certainly appreciate Your shares and your shout-outs.

Johnny:

There are plenty more amazing guests lined up for future shows, so do make sure you

Johnny:

are subscribed for our future episodes.

Johnny:

It's easy to do, and there's a good chance that you have your

Johnny:

device in your hand right now.

Johnny:

And if you're listening on Spotify or on Apple Podcasts, Then it's really

Johnny:

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Johnny:

So please consider doing that.

Johnny:

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Johnny:

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Johnny:

know how we're doing, and if there's anything we can do to even improve

Johnny:

the show and make it better for you?

Johnny:

Very soon.

Johnny:

I'll be bringing you my interview with Grant Baldwin.

Johnny:

He is the host of The Speaker Lab podcast, and also the author of

Johnny:

The Successful Speaker book, both of which I thoroughly enjoyed.

Johnny:

That was a great conversation.

Johnny:

And I was really thrilled at the Grant took some time out of his

Johnny:

busy schedule to come and speak to me on a Speaking Influence.

Johnny:

So do keep an eye out for that show coming to you very soon.

Johnny:

I'll look forward to connecting with you again very soon.

Johnny:

In the meantime where have you gone whatever you're doing have

Johnny:

an amazing rest of your day.

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About the Podcast

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Podfluence
The podcast that helps business coaches build influence and income with podcasts

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About your host

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John Ball

From international flight attendant to international coach and trainer. Then on to podcaster and persuasion expert, it's been quite the journey for John. Now the author of the book Podfluence: how to build professional authority with podcasts, and host of the Podfluence podcast (formerly Speaking Influence) with over 150 episodes and over 10,000 downloads John is now focused on helping business coaches and speakers to build a following and grow your lead flow and charisma. You can now also listen to John on The Coaching Clinic podcast with his good friend and colleague Angie Besignano and the Try To Stand Up podcast where John is on a journey to become funnier on the stage and in his communication.