What you really need to know to be effective in sales and what to do if you mess up | Rob Elliott

Johnny: 00:00:00

Welcome to the show.

Johnny: 00:00:00

My name's Johnny Ball.

Johnny: 00:00:01

This is Speaking Influence at least for a few weeks longer because on the 1st of

Johnny: 00:00:12

as Podfluence and we will certainly still be having a very strong focus on

Johnny: 00:00:19

much more on how that applies to the world of podcasting, both as a host,

Johnny: 00:00:27

So we are going to be really there to help business owners like coaches,

Johnny: 00:00:37

People who have personal brand businesses.

Johnny: 00:00:40

I want to become more known for what they do, who want to build

Johnny: 00:00:46

But we will still be having experts on influence and persuasion in other areas

Johnny: 00:00:52

generally to improve our own charisma our own influence our own persuasive skills

Johnny: 00:00:59

So whilst things will be changing, they won't be changing dramatically,

Johnny: 00:01:06

So I hope you'll stick with us for that.

Johnny: 00:01:07

You don't need to do anything, just stay on this channel.

Johnny: 00:01:10

You'll notice everything will update as Podfluence in July, and you'll notice

Johnny: 00:01:16

I've already been recording some amazing shows with some fantastic people.

Johnny: 00:01:20

And I know you're going to love that, but we're going to be having more solo shows,

Johnny: 00:01:30

So in the lead up to that, I want to introduce you to Rob Elliot.

Johnny: 00:01:33

Who's my guest on this show today.

Johnny: 00:01:35

And Rob is a sales trainer and an excellent one at that.

Johnny: 00:01:39

Now what Rob didn't know when we were having our conversation

Johnny: 00:01:44

So he wasn't performing at his best, but I think you'll agree after you get to

Johnny: 00:01:52

particularly things like how to overcome a bad first impression, but also how to make

Johnny: 00:02:00

And some of the basic sales skills that people just don't get taught

Johnny: 00:02:08

Rob does have a book out and we'll talk about that, but we're also

Johnny: 00:02:16

You're going to love this conversation.

Johnny: 00:02:17

I hope as much as I did, if you're not already subscribed to the show,

Johnny: 00:02:22

And if you haven't left us a review or shared the show with your friends and

Johnny: 00:02:27

If you have your device in your hand, right now, maybe give us a four or

Johnny: 00:02:32

If that's where you're listening to us, because it's going to make me feel good.

Johnny: 00:02:35

And if you leave me a great review, I'm going to read it out on the show as well.

Johnny: 00:02:39

You'll get a shout-out on Speaking Influence or maybe on

Johnny: 00:02:46

So what I want to do now is leave you to enjoy this conversation

Johnny: 00:03:09

Speaking Influence.

Johnny: 00:03:10

And today we are going to be having an interesting conversation about sales

Johnny: 00:03:16

favorite topics, and we have an expert on the subject, with us to help us

Johnny: 00:03:21

Welcome to the show Rob.

Rob Elliott: 00:03:23

G'day mate.

Rob Elliott: 00:03:23

How are ya?.

Johnny: 00:03:24

I'm great.

Johnny: 00:03:25

Thank you.

Johnny: 00:03:26

I've just had come home, just come back from a weekend of celebrations

Johnny: 00:03:30

So I'm, I'm ready to take on the world right now.

Johnny: 00:03:32

How are you?

Rob Elliott: 00:03:33

Mate, we're the same over here in Australia.

Rob Elliott: 00:03:35

We've we've had an awesome few weeks here and we're ready to rock.

Johnny: 00:03:38

That's great news.

Johnny: 00:03:39

Indeed.

Johnny: 00:03:40

I like to get things started by asking my guests about who is someone for you,

Rob Elliott: 00:03:52

I'd look, if I think about it, there was a gentleman in

Rob Elliott: 00:03:56

He wrote, he raced across America and didn't realize at the time he

Rob Elliott: 00:04:04

He's been a politician.

Rob Elliott: 00:04:06

He was the one that actually taught me how to public speak.

Rob Elliott: 00:04:09

This this guy is amazing.

Rob Elliott: 00:04:11

He doesn't take no, even when other people wouldn't do it.

Rob Elliott: 00:04:15

And he uses these days he uses his influence for

Rob Elliott: 00:04:21

But the one thing I loved about him was you and I would never run from

Rob Elliott: 00:04:26

He ran around Australia twice.

Rob Elliott: 00:04:28

I mean, really, but he wanted to bring the nation.

Rob Elliott: 00:04:32

So he's one of those truly unique individuals that doesn't do it for money.

Rob Elliott: 00:04:36

Doesn't do it for his own personal good.

Rob Elliott: 00:04:38

He just loves to inspire people.

Rob Elliott: 00:04:41

And he's a personal friend of mine, but he also taught me so much about

Rob Elliott: 00:04:49

parachute and see what happens.

Johnny: 00:04:52

Well, that's a great example of somebody to look up to and for

Johnny: 00:05:00

Well, describe, describe your professional life for us, cause you do a few different.

Rob Elliott: 00:05:05

Yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:05:06

look, I'm a podcaster, just like you, but I do sales and business coaching.

Rob Elliott: 00:05:10

Now that's not mentoring.

Rob Elliott: 00:05:13

A sales and business coach gets the answers out of the

Rob Elliott: 00:05:17

About 90% of people have the answers within.

Rob Elliott: 00:05:20

Some of them just need a process to help them get along the way someone just need

Rob Elliott: 00:05:32

And I merge that in with public speaking and people say, well, you

Rob Elliott: 00:05:39

Of course, every time you walk into a business, every time you're

Rob Elliott: 00:05:48

So I love getting people who are in their own admission, terrible public

Rob Elliott: 00:05:55

showing them how to come across as really, really good, because people

Rob Elliott: 00:06:01

The same time with sales, you know, anyone can sell and everyone is in sales.

Rob Elliott: 00:06:06

Not everyone sells, but everyone in every part of a business businesses in sales.

Rob Elliott: 00:06:10

so sometimes a business owner or a manager just needs a little bit of

Rob Elliott: 00:06:17

out where and what we call the sales chain, it's falling down so we can get

Johnny: 00:06:22

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:06:23

And these, these are important messages that I feel like I'm part of that mission

Johnny: 00:06:31

communication skills are, and to really see the bigger picture when it comes

Johnny: 00:06:37

You are part of a professional system, especially when you're in a business

Johnny: 00:06:44

But those are, those are great things to be working on.

Johnny: 00:06:47

And so I know one of the things that I really wanted to talk

Johnny: 00:06:52

A bit later, but we had a chat a while back.

Johnny: 00:06:55

And one of the things I wanted to get started with something that

Johnny: 00:07:01

Because talk about you, you mentioned someone about wanting to get up on

Johnny: 00:07:06

front of a of people, you know, you mentioned public speaking and people

Johnny: 00:07:14

How do you become confident in that kind of situation?

Johnny: 00:07:17

Where either you're walking into a room to present to people or you're getting

Rob Elliott: 00:07:23

Yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:07:24

Well, the first thing I say to people is be just be, you don't try to be

Rob Elliott: 00:07:34

Just be you.

Rob Elliott: 00:07:36

Cause then you don't have to worry about it.

Rob Elliott: 00:07:38

You're not, don't fake it because people will pick up.

Rob Elliott: 00:07:41

If you you're not who you are.

Rob Elliott: 00:07:43

I mean, we call it in Australia, the bullshit meter and within 30

Rob Elliott: 00:07:48

He's full of rubbish, he doesn't know what he's talking about when it

Rob Elliott: 00:07:53

There's two things I say to people.

Rob Elliott: 00:07:55

If you're going to do an important presentation and you're a sales

Rob Elliott: 00:08:03

The day before or the morning of go there without them seeing you, see

Rob Elliott: 00:08:12

So you're not getting caught out.

Rob Elliott: 00:08:14

It's so important to be comfortable when you walk in, when it comes to

Rob Elliott: 00:08:20

of people, you're going to address a business meeting or a whole group going

Rob Elliott: 00:08:27

And have a look around, I call it walking the call.

Rob Elliott: 00:08:30

It's an old sales term where you walk around the outside of a business.

Rob Elliott: 00:08:34

You talk to people before you walk in, so you know, the business,

Rob Elliott: 00:08:39

One of the most important things I got told in public speaking is get

Rob Elliott: 00:08:44

and walk on the stage, walk where you're going to speak.

Rob Elliott: 00:08:47

So then you're not getting caught out.

Rob Elliott: 00:08:50

If you can walk on relaxed, if you can walk on going,

Rob Elliott: 00:08:54

I know where the microphone is.

Rob Elliott: 00:08:56

I know where the lights are, or I know where people are

Rob Elliott: 00:09:01

If you're walking into a room, always walk in and be at the front of the room.

Rob Elliott: 00:09:06

So you can see everyone never, ever stand with a glass wall behind you.

Rob Elliott: 00:09:11

You have to be in control.

Rob Elliott: 00:09:14

It doesn't matter if you're terrified, you're shaking, you know, You have to give

Johnny: 00:09:25

Yeah, I agree.

Johnny: 00:09:26

I was thinking that when I've done some competitive speaking before they

Johnny: 00:09:35

And usually the night before, they'll let you go up on the

Johnny: 00:09:39

Or even have a run of what you're going to be presenting.

Johnny: 00:09:42

And I think one of the things that people lack, and I think that does

Johnny: 00:09:49

People are very last minute about things.

Johnny: 00:09:51

And if you're too last minute about it, you are going to be maybe

Johnny: 00:10:00

Like when you're, well-practiced in what you're doing, it's a lot easier to feel

Johnny: 00:10:05

I think.

Rob Elliott: 00:10:06

Oh, yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:10:07

So true.

Rob Elliott: 00:10:08

There's a trick that I, well, it's not a trick.

Rob Elliott: 00:10:10

It's I suppose you call it that what I say to people, if they are struggling

Rob Elliott: 00:10:17

and tell me about something in you, you do in your life when you are totally

Rob Elliott: 00:10:23

And it could be when they're playing soccer, or it could be when they're

Rob Elliott: 00:10:28

And I said, now think of it.

Rob Elliott: 00:10:29

And they say, yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:10:30

So when you're about to walk into something that is a stressful situation

Rob Elliott: 00:10:38

Think about that time.

Rob Elliott: 00:10:39

When you know, you are at you're most confident.

Rob Elliott: 00:10:43

And then associate a move with it.

Rob Elliott: 00:10:45

It can be a tap on the, on your, on your leg, tap on the arm, you train

Rob Elliott: 00:10:51

And then you walk in and of course then your, your brain clicks straight away on

Rob Elliott: 00:10:57

And it's, it takes a little practice, but it can make, or break you so quick.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:03

And that instant first impression when you walk in the room, people look at you.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:09

You want them to look at you.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:10

You want to own the room.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:12

It doesn't matter if you've never seen them before.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:14

It doesn't matter.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:15

If you don't know what you're talking about, you walk in the

Rob Elliott: 00:11:22

I'm here.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:23

You announce yourself.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:24

I'm here just by walking in.

Johnny: 00:11:27

What do you think is the essence then of charisma in those situations?

Johnny: 00:11:32

Is it, is it really confidence that gives you that or other other elements.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:38

Confidence in yourself and confidence in what you're talking to.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:40

If you're confident in your way you walk.

Rob Elliott: 00:11:42

I used to take the guys who were working for me when I was a sales manager

Rob Elliott: 00:11:48

And we, you know, you've all been there with the little things around

Rob Elliott: 00:11:53

You must scan this, you must scan that and it'd be trade and they would be lining

Rob Elliott: 00:11:59

And then, and they'd just look at me and say, how do you do that?

Rob Elliott: 00:12:03

I said do what I say.

Rob Elliott: 00:12:05

I'll just walk straight in.

Rob Elliott: 00:12:07

They're not going to pull up.

Rob Elliott: 00:12:09

It's the same.

Rob Elliott: 00:12:10

It's all about confidence and presence.

Rob Elliott: 00:12:13

If you feel confident and you say yourself, I deserve

Rob Elliott: 00:12:19

the next thing to do charisma it's when you be yourself, but

Rob Elliott: 00:12:24

You've got to know what you're talking about.

Rob Elliott: 00:12:26

If you aren't confident in the three or four points about what you're going

Rob Elliott: 00:12:33

people go it'll, it'll come you'll be confident and they'll turn around and go,

Rob Elliott: 00:12:40

And he knows what he's talking about.

Rob Elliott: 00:12:43

Easy as that.

Rob Elliott: 00:12:44

And I mean, it's easy for people like you and I who can speak,

Rob Elliott: 00:12:49

Just takes practice.

Johnny: 00:12:51

It does.

Johnny: 00:12:52

And this is an interesting, an interesting element.

Johnny: 00:12:54

And even, even as someone who is a professional speaker, I say there are

Johnny: 00:13:02

practiced as I'd like to be, or you end up having something a bit more last minute,

Johnny: 00:13:07

And you're sort back to the place that you don't necessarily want to be.

Johnny: 00:13:09

But I do know that.

Johnny: 00:13:11

When you are well-prepared for what you're doing and you've run through

Johnny: 00:13:19

I feel like you're more embodied and more physically remember it,

Johnny: 00:13:24

presentation or something like that, then you don't have to spend your time

Johnny: 00:13:30

That's the point at which you can inject you into it more and deliver with more, I

Johnny: 00:13:40

Personality and emotion and what you're doing.

Rob Elliott: 00:13:43

I mean, people have got to remember mate that the only

Rob Elliott: 00:13:49

The audience doesn't.

Rob Elliott: 00:13:51

So who cares

Johnny: 00:13:52

Yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:13:53

go for it?

Rob Elliott: 00:13:54

You, you say right.

Rob Elliott: 00:13:54

It's we've all mucked up on stage.

Rob Elliott: 00:13:56

We've all forgotten.

Rob Elliott: 00:13:57

Key things walked off stage and on man, I forgot to say that point, but then

Rob Elliott: 00:14:04

I used to get very upset about it.

Rob Elliott: 00:14:06

And then a professional speaker turned around and said, I

Rob Elliott: 00:14:11

You know, you just let it go

Johnny: 00:14:13

Yeah, I, and ultimately you have to, because this is, this is the thing.

Johnny: 00:14:17

I think a lot of people get stuck in it.

Johnny: 00:14:18

If you do mess up a bit, People get some to, I failed, I've messed it up.

Johnny: 00:14:22

I maybe I shouldn't be doing this or I'm a terrible speaker.

Johnny: 00:14:26

I was like, well, there really is only one way to get better at it.

Johnny: 00:14:28

And that is to keep, keep getting up and doing it.

Johnny: 00:14:31

Keep on with this until you do get better at it because nobody starts

Johnny: 00:14:38

And the, some people are more natural on a stage perhaps than other.

Johnny: 00:14:42

But nobody starts off being great at speaking, there are talents and

Rob Elliott: 00:14:50

You've gotta practice.

Rob Elliott: 00:14:51

If I'm doing a major keynote, I go and find somewhere else to do a speech.

Rob Elliott: 00:14:55

Before you got to get the cobwebs out, you've gotta mark it up.

Rob Elliott: 00:14:59

You got to stuff it up.

Rob Elliott: 00:15:01

And then by the time then you get to the big one.

Rob Elliott: 00:15:04

You've done your practice.

Rob Elliott: 00:15:04

I mean, a footballer doesn't get on the field without practicing and training.

Rob Elliott: 00:15:10

During the week, a public speaker is no different or a person in sales.

Rob Elliott: 00:15:14

Who's doing a presentation.

Rob Elliott: 00:15:15

It's no different.

Rob Elliott: 00:15:17

You've got to practice, you've got to know your stuff.

Rob Elliott: 00:15:19

And then when you walk in, you gotta be willing to rock and

Johnny: 00:15:24

I feel that that is one of these things that people get wrong.

Johnny: 00:15:28

And it's not only public speaking, but this is a place where it happens that

Johnny: 00:15:36

And so if, if you feel that you're not, or if you're terrified of it or you haven't

Johnny: 00:15:45

But again, there's only one way to get it, but people do have this

Johnny: 00:15:52

Because when you see the people who you might look up to say, oh, they're

Johnny: 00:15:57

They present with a real authenticity or real passion and what they're doing,

Johnny: 00:16:03

But you only see the end product.

Johnny: 00:16:06

It's like seeing a band on the stage.

Johnny: 00:16:09

They didn't just get up there without having practice

Johnny: 00:16:12

Hundreds of times, they they've had years of experience.

Johnny: 00:16:15

You're just seeing the end result and it's the same kind of thing in

Johnny: 00:16:20

I feel also that people don't want to put the work in a lot of the time.

Rob Elliott: 00:16:25

Oh, true.

Rob Elliott: 00:16:26

True.

Rob Elliott: 00:16:26

I, I worked with a lady who was a general manager and one-on-one and in

Rob Elliott: 00:16:33

Absolutely.

Rob Elliott: 00:16:35

Put her on stage and I counted 28 ums in one minute.

Rob Elliott: 00:16:40

And as a general manager, you can't do that.

Rob Elliott: 00:16:43

And she stood there and rocked and rolled, which is shocking.

Rob Elliott: 00:16:47

And she lost a lot of respect, not big, not because people didn't like her,

Rob Elliott: 00:16:55

And it wasn't long after that, they barred her from speaking.

Johnny: 00:16:58

yeah, she might.

Johnny: 00:17:00

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:17:01

She might be able to get a job as the prime minister of England.

Rob Elliott: 00:17:06

He's a unique individual.

Johnny: 00:17:09

Especially, it's a special case for that one.

Johnny: 00:17:11

But this, this is super important and I think this is an important thing to get.

Johnny: 00:17:15

We also had a chat while back about making a good first impression.

Johnny: 00:17:19

And sometimes when you're yourself, you sometimes have to see yourself,

Johnny: 00:17:25

We can maybe ask a few people, but not, everyone's always going to be honest.

Johnny: 00:17:28

How do you go about making a good first impression in.

Johnny: 00:17:33

Stage situations in any kind of professional situations.

Rob Elliott: 00:17:37

First rule of thumb is we've been given two ears

Rob Elliott: 00:17:42

And that's the first thing you should always do.

Rob Elliott: 00:17:44

Listen twice talk once every single time, if you're known as a good listener,

Rob Elliott: 00:17:53

gonna like you, but some of the people that didn't necessarily like me, we

Rob Elliott: 00:18:00

So you've got a little bit of respect there.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:03

You've got to turn around and say to yourself, well, do I care

Rob Elliott: 00:18:10

No, but is it, my goal to get the sale or do business with them.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:17

Yes.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:18

So I'll stand there and I'll listen to him.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:20

I'll acknowledge.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:22

It's an old trick of you prove you repeat back to them, their complaints,

Rob Elliott: 00:18:27

They then think that you're listening to them because it's called validation.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:32

And this is an, and people will make up their mind within

Rob Elliott: 00:18:37

And if they don't like you or not, because most communication is nonverbal.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:43

Well, the time you speak, they've made their mind up, even if

Rob Elliott: 00:18:47

So it comes across.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:50

As some people don't like people walking towards them being,

Rob Elliott: 00:18:56

Some people are the opposite.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:57

They love that.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:57

They see it's confidence.

Rob Elliott: 00:18:58

So you've got to look at the person and see how they act.

Rob Elliott: 00:19:02

And we call it mirroring.

Rob Elliott: 00:19:04

If you see how they act, you act the way they act, you still be yourself.

Rob Elliott: 00:19:08

But if they use a lot of flowery words, you use a lot of flowery words.

Rob Elliott: 00:19:13

If they're short and sharp, you become short and sharp because then

Rob Elliott: 00:19:18

And all of a sudden you'll get some very, very good feedback

Rob Elliott: 00:19:25

And that is a big, first impression.

Rob Elliott: 00:19:28

It is so important, but of, I mean, sometimes we all muck it

Rob Elliott: 00:19:33

So, you know, don't beat yourself up if you do it.

Rob Elliott: 00:19:36

It's a, it's just human.

Rob Elliott: 00:19:37

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:19:39

I think so.

Johnny: 00:19:39

I think rapport skills are always interesting because there's a

Johnny: 00:19:44

Talk about matching and mirroring.

Johnny: 00:19:46

There's a great skills to have, but they come from the thing of, these are the

Johnny: 00:19:55

where things go well, or people who have a strong empathy factor, emotional

Johnny: 00:20:05

And so it's more a case of when that's not happening when you're not making

Johnny: 00:20:13

not empathic that you can manage those things in a more conscious way

Rob Elliott: 00:20:22

You need to take a breath.

Rob Elliott: 00:20:23

They pick it up as much as you do.

Rob Elliott: 00:20:24

It's like trying to ask someone at a pub for a dance or buy them a drink.

Rob Elliott: 00:20:29

They pick it up, you pick it up.

Rob Elliott: 00:20:31

Your gut is much better than.

Rob Elliott: 00:20:33

You've got, we'll tell you if it's working or not, that intuition inside

Rob Elliott: 00:20:42

Sometimes it's better just to catch a losses and walk.

Rob Elliott: 00:20:45

Cause it's just, you're not going to, you just don't waste your time.

Rob Elliott: 00:20:48

If you can't get that, or we find it a lot with engineers, they're very process

Rob Elliott: 00:20:58

It's like a clash of the, it doesn't work.

Rob Elliott: 00:21:01

So you've got to be enough to go well, I might find one of the guys from our

Rob Elliott: 00:21:13

It's a case of being, knowing when to step back and knowing

Johnny: 00:21:18

Yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:21:19

it happens all the time and it just, you're going

Rob Elliott: 00:21:22

But once you learn very quickly that you're listening with your eyes, as much

Johnny: 00:21:31

I think that that's an important point because if you, I think people

Johnny: 00:21:39

executive or leadership role or you're a business owner where it might, may

Johnny: 00:21:48

But it's great to remember that you don't actually have to be one of the good things

Johnny: 00:21:59

were better at doing some of the other things in your business than you are so

Johnny: 00:22:09

But those are the things to think about, but we always just put this

Johnny: 00:22:15

And I think maybe some of that difference between the growth

Johnny: 00:22:20

The fixed mindset says I have perfect at anything.

Johnny: 00:22:21

And any failures means I'm not perfect.

Johnny: 00:22:24

Whereas growth mindset says any failures means, all right,

Johnny: 00:22:28

Great news.

Johnny: 00:22:30

It's a big difference.

Rob Elliott: 00:22:31

One of the things I used to do is I had a guy that worked for me.

Rob Elliott: 00:22:34

He was very technical.

Rob Elliott: 00:22:37

Couldn't really sell, but very technical.

Rob Elliott: 00:22:39

But if I was going to say customer where they had some people who

Rob Elliott: 00:22:50

You know, good cop, bad cop.

Rob Elliott: 00:22:52

And he would, and he was so good.

Rob Elliott: 00:22:54

He was a lot older than me and he could just jump in and go, did

Rob Elliott: 00:23:01

And that is when you've got to know well, that guy's better than that.

Rob Elliott: 00:23:04

If I start doing it I'll only muck up the technical and the day, our data

Rob Elliott: 00:23:10

And it'll come back.

Rob Elliott: 00:23:12

What you just said was gold.

Rob Elliott: 00:23:13

A lot of people try and do things that they're not.

Rob Elliott: 00:23:17

And then I make a mistake and then they've got to hold themselves

Rob Elliott: 00:23:23

First rule of thumb is if you don't know don't guess so.

Rob Elliott: 00:23:26

No, no, I do not know that, but I'll find out for you or I'll get someone to talk to

Rob Elliott: 00:23:33

All of a sudden you're acknowledging what they're doing.

Rob Elliott: 00:23:36

You're putting your hand up and saying, I'm not going to try and

Rob Elliott: 00:23:40

I don't really know.

Rob Elliott: 00:23:42

And you get respect straight.

Rob Elliott: 00:23:45

You know, it's a big call.

Rob Elliott: 00:23:46

It takes pride and ego gets in the way, especially when

Rob Elliott: 00:23:51

And then you just got to make a few mistakes like I did.

Rob Elliott: 00:23:54

And then you get rid of pride and ego and just you get it doing a lot better.

Johnny: 00:23:58

You ultimately have to, because it is hard to keep track of BS.

Johnny: 00:24:03

If you do too much of it is that you keep, just keep making

Johnny: 00:24:08

Isn't there comes time where you have to, you have to know it, or

Rob Elliott: 00:24:13

Once you tell one lie, you got to keep telling more

Rob Elliott: 00:24:18

You start doing it in your personal life and it could, it.

Rob Elliott: 00:24:22

is fatal.

Johnny: 00:24:23

Yeah, it's a very rapid downward spiral.

Johnny: 00:24:25

So

Rob Elliott: 00:24:25

It is.

Johnny: 00:24:26

let's say, I wonder if you have any pointers for this, if you're in a

Johnny: 00:24:30

that for that impression that you want to from the start, are there any things

Rob Elliott: 00:24:37

You can turn around and say, well, look what is it?

Rob Elliott: 00:24:40

You want from me today?

Rob Elliott: 00:24:42

How can I help you today?

Rob Elliott: 00:24:44

Never ask a closed question.

Rob Elliott: 00:24:46

A yes or no, ask an open, just cut to the chase, some cultures around the world.

Rob Elliott: 00:24:51

That's how they operate.

Rob Elliott: 00:24:53

And so you've got to know who you're dealing with, but I've turned around

Rob Elliott: 00:24:57

So.

Rob Elliott: 00:24:58

We could go back and forth all day about this and that let's just cut to the chase.

Rob Elliott: 00:25:02

How can I help you?

Rob Elliott: 00:25:04

And if they're fair d'incum him and they rule they really, after watching it,

Rob Elliott: 00:25:12

That's all I needed to now come back to you with an offer.

Johnny: 00:25:16

Yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:25:16

Pull the bandaid off.

Johnny: 00:25:18

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:25:19

And very often people will respect the directness and they'll also

Johnny: 00:25:27

I'm not sure about this person.

Johnny: 00:25:30

Yeah, it's hard.

Johnny: 00:25:30

It's hard to go against that.

Johnny: 00:25:32

And I like that.

Johnny: 00:25:33

And one thing that I come across a lot in some of my coaching

Johnny: 00:25:42

When it comes time to talk about sales.

Johnny: 00:25:44

And this is why I think it's great to talk to sales experts like yourself.

Johnny: 00:25:49

A lot of people struggle with this.

Johnny: 00:25:51

You could be having a great conversation.

Johnny: 00:25:53

You can be really connecting.

Johnny: 00:25:54

You can be having, I don't know, as a coach.

Johnny: 00:25:56

You could be having a discovery call or as we just meeting with

Johnny: 00:26:00

So then it comes time to talk about the sale.

Johnny: 00:26:02

Talk about actually purchasing and the majority of people go to pieces

Rob Elliott: 00:26:07

Yes,

Johnny: 00:26:08

or they go into this robotic sales mode

Rob Elliott: 00:26:11

yeah.

Johnny: 00:26:12

I like, oh, I have to sell now.

Johnny: 00:26:14

What's going on there and what can we do to make it better?

Rob Elliott: 00:26:18

If you're starting to get nervous, it means

Rob Elliott: 00:26:22

You haven't answered these questions.

Rob Elliott: 00:26:24

That's your gut turning around and saying, you've marked this up.

Rob Elliott: 00:26:28

If you've answered every one of his or her concerns, and you've said to them,

Rob Elliott: 00:26:35

No.

Rob Elliott: 00:26:36

So you just turn around and say, well, how do we move?

Rob Elliott: 00:26:40

Is there anything else I need to explain more, but if you, if you're the opposite

Rob Elliott: 00:26:53

If you do it all right at the start, you don't have to sell.

Rob Elliott: 00:26:58

They're just ready to buy.

Rob Elliott: 00:26:59

And you never mention price.

Rob Elliott: 00:27:02

I mean, price really is so low.

Rob Elliott: 00:27:04

When you look at the metrics of all the reasons people buy.

Rob Elliott: 00:27:08

If someone is just price-driven, they're not worth it.

Rob Elliott: 00:27:10

They're not a good customer.

Rob Elliott: 00:27:13

So you've need to turn around and say, all right, this is where we are.

Rob Elliott: 00:27:17

I've answered all your questions.

Rob Elliott: 00:27:19

Is there anything else I can do for you today?

Rob Elliott: 00:27:20

No.

Rob Elliott: 00:27:21

So how do we move forward?

Rob Elliott: 00:27:22

And then let them tell you.

Johnny: 00:27:24

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:27:25

How about if that's a more of a presentation situation where you don't

Johnny: 00:27:32

necessarily have the responsiveness from the person who you're speaking to,

Rob Elliott: 00:27:38

You ask them you're a you're presenting in a room

Rob Elliott: 00:27:49

You should know before you walk in the room.

Rob Elliott: 00:27:51

Who's the decision maker, if not ask.

Rob Elliott: 00:27:53

So who will be making the decision?

Rob Elliott: 00:27:57

All of a sudden you're pulling the power back.

Rob Elliott: 00:28:00

And they'll say so-and-so okay then.

Rob Elliott: 00:28:02

Fantastic.

Rob Elliott: 00:28:03

George, you're making the decision.

Rob Elliott: 00:28:05

When would you like me to call you?

Rob Elliott: 00:28:07

Not, do you want me to call you?

Rob Elliott: 00:28:10

When would you like me to call you?

Rob Elliott: 00:28:11

Or when would you like me to set up a meeting to do the deal, put it on

Johnny: 00:28:16

Yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:28:17

It's a closing tactic to push them and you'll know by the body

Rob Elliott: 00:28:25

And quite often I've turned around and said to people, I say,

Rob Elliott: 00:28:32

You should know what's going on there.

Rob Elliott: 00:28:34

All, I want you to come back to me, honestly, if we don't

Rob Elliott: 00:28:38

Let me know where we've fallen down and where we can improve, throw it

Rob Elliott: 00:28:45

And, and you know, if they're professionally well-run

Rob Elliott: 00:28:49

If they don't, they're not worth doing.

Johnny: 00:28:52

Hmm.

Johnny: 00:28:54

Those are, those are great answers and definitely important things for

Johnny: 00:29:00

of situation, you need to be able to have that prepared in your mind

Johnny: 00:29:07

Uh, if you're thinking, if I were to think on your feet and figure that

Johnny: 00:29:13

You learn from somebody who's, who's trodden the path before you and,

Johnny: 00:29:21

So I appreciate that.

Rob Elliott: 00:29:22

Look, I don't think there's a mistake I haven't made

Rob Elliott: 00:29:27

I mean, that's the truth, you know, you've got to learn from people

Rob Elliott: 00:29:34

If you haven't stuffed up, you can't teach anybody.

Johnny: 00:29:38

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:29:39

I've done some great ones.

Johnny: 00:29:39

I did delivered a whole sales presentation one time and stood in front of the slide

Johnny: 00:29:47

The whole time I was speaking, it doesn't look good.

Johnny: 00:29:49

That wasn't a good first impression.

Rob Elliott: 00:29:53

You laughed about it later, you know, that's good.

Johnny: 00:29:56

Yeah, thanks.

Johnny: 00:29:57

Thankfully.

Johnny: 00:29:57

So did the people I was presenting to, but it w it wasn't

Johnny: 00:30:01

Nevermind.

Johnny: 00:30:02

So let me ask you, I think some of the things I love talking about my

Johnny: 00:30:10

I especially love having conversations with people who

Johnny: 00:30:14

And so I want to have a chat with you about why you got into podcasting

Rob Elliott: 00:30:25

I got into podcasting because of COVID.

Rob Elliott: 00:30:28

I used to interview people on.

Rob Elliott: 00:30:31

Interview people at my rotary club interview.

Rob Elliott: 00:30:33

Fantastic.

Rob Elliott: 00:30:34

Love it.

Rob Elliott: 00:30:35

I love walking on stage.

Rob Elliott: 00:30:36

No pre-done questions just rocking.

Rob Elliott: 00:30:40

COVID hit.

Rob Elliott: 00:30:41

And someone said, what are we going to do now?

Rob Elliott: 00:30:44

So I thought I'd start a podcast where I'm just interviewing normal people who have

Rob Elliott: 00:30:52

And I self-taught, I must have watched about 30,000 hours on

Rob Elliott: 00:31:01

And just first four or five were just friends

Johnny: 00:31:04

yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:31:04

that were successful business.

Rob Elliott: 00:31:05

People learned how to edit and the whole preferences.

Rob Elliott: 00:31:10

There is some of the best success stories in the world are normal people aren't

Rob Elliott: 00:31:21

And that's the whole preference of the real journeys of success podcast.

Rob Elliott: 00:31:24

Just sharing people's stories.

Rob Elliott: 00:31:26

And there are some amazing people out there who have gone through

Rob Elliott: 00:31:34

they've just kicked goals have not let them be brought

Rob Elliott: 00:31:39

They've lost everything.

Rob Elliott: 00:31:40

They've been bashed.

Rob Elliott: 00:31:42

They've had everything you could possibly do and they turn around and they're

Rob Elliott: 00:31:48

Like you wouldn't believe.

Rob Elliott: 00:31:49

And these stories are just fantastic.

Rob Elliott: 00:31:51

And you know, I I'd say to anyone, if you've got a passion, if you've

Rob Elliott: 00:31:56

I think if you do a podcast on insects for pest control, it doesn't matter.

Rob Elliott: 00:32:02

There is someone out there that wants to know there is someone out

Rob Elliott: 00:32:08

So I say, go for it, make a few errors, get some dud guests as you and I were

Rob Elliott: 00:32:18

It's the best way to communicate with.

Johnny: 00:32:22

Yeah, I think there's a huge opportunities in podcasting at the moment.

Johnny: 00:32:26

And one of the things that I'll say to you is you don't

Johnny: 00:32:31

In fact, I would generally say.

Johnny: 00:32:33

That may not for everyone be the best place to start.

Johnny: 00:32:36

Anyway, start by going on podcasts getting a bit of a feel for a find your feet first

Johnny: 00:32:46

And as you say, you can get to you get to meet, chat and connect with some

Johnny: 00:32:52

So.

Johnny: 00:32:52

You can get started on that without all the effort and energy that goes

Johnny: 00:32:58

Cause there's a lot of work.

Johnny: 00:32:59

I think we should be clear on that.

Johnny: 00:33:00

It's not just, we just show up and do this and that's it job done.

Johnny: 00:33:04

There's a lot that goes into it.

Johnny: 00:33:05

But going and being a guest is a lot easier and a lot easier, although

Johnny: 00:33:09

strategic around that, but it is such a vastly growing industry right now with

Johnny: 00:33:16

I think this is important, right?

Rob Elliott: 00:33:18

My only concern is that all these people I've interviewed

Rob Elliott: 00:33:22

We're all going to turn up in Sydney on the same weekend and it's going to

Rob Elliott: 00:33:33

We can get on a podcast and it doesn't matter, you So, but everything

Rob Elliott: 00:33:41

And just enjoy yourself.

Rob Elliott: 00:33:42

Just be you again, just be you.

Johnny: 00:33:45

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:33:45

And that's an important thing to talk about what you love.

Johnny: 00:33:47

I think it's a, it's not the best idea, especially now.

Johnny: 00:33:51

I think there time where you could go on podcasts and talk about

Johnny: 00:33:58

Things are populating in the market is more people getting

Johnny: 00:34:03

And you really do need to stand out.

Johnny: 00:34:06

And so it's not just knowing what you're to talk about,

Johnny: 00:34:09

I think also there's the thing of bringing that confidence, that

Johnny: 00:34:14

To this as well, because you could go on a hundred podcasts, but if you're not

Johnny: 00:34:24

It's just going to make people think, oh, it's really boring.

Rob Elliott: 00:34:27

Well, You got to have a

Johnny: 00:34:28

but yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:34:29

If you've got to have something that people want to listen

Rob Elliott: 00:34:36

with a very boring story and you go, I just, you just turn off in the first

Johnny: 00:34:42

Yeah, I'm okay.

Johnny: 00:34:43

If the podcast is designed to put me to sleep, you know, that that would be fine,

Johnny: 00:34:54

And I'm from most people and that that's super important, but you

Johnny: 00:35:02

And that does take a while.

Johnny: 00:35:03

It's a, it's a long game podcasting.

Johnny: 00:35:06

You start doing well with it.

Johnny: 00:35:07

It can do, it can do wonders for your credibility and it does wonders

Johnny: 00:35:17

So what is your book about.

Rob Elliott: 00:35:20

The book's called the sales chain tips tools and an insider's

Rob Elliott: 00:35:25

What it's about, it's the, what you call the ultimate guide to

Rob Elliott: 00:35:30

People can read there's all these high.

Rob Elliott: 00:35:33

What do you call it?

Rob Elliott: 00:35:34

These books where they're very, very complicated, very, very Too hard.

Rob Elliott: 00:35:39

There's no basic book out there for people.

Rob Elliott: 00:35:42

The sales chain look, sales chain came around because people didn't have

Rob Elliott: 00:35:49

All the books that are on the market were all high-end this strategy, that strategy

Rob Elliott: 00:35:56

on the market for someone to learn what niching is, what questioning is, what

Rob Elliott: 00:36:03

So someone said to me, Rob, why don't you just write a book for a guy who's

Rob Elliott: 00:36:12

understand the guys and girls at the end of the corridor every Friday who

Rob Elliott: 00:36:20

And so that's what it came about.

Rob Elliott: 00:36:21

And I've had really, really good uptake.

Rob Elliott: 00:36:23

It's gone all over the world.

Rob Elliott: 00:36:25

They, people can buy it on your Amazons and everywhere like that.

Rob Elliott: 00:36:28

And people just come back to us and said, I love the simplicity of it.

Rob Elliott: 00:36:32

I've got people in it who are venture capitalists from America, a communications

Rob Elliott: 00:36:45

Just talking about sales on this.

Rob Elliott: 00:36:48

it's a lot of fun.

Rob Elliott: 00:36:49

It's a very easy read and hopefully, they all enjoy it.

Johnny: 00:36:53

Yeah, it's interesting to me, how many people tell me they hate

Johnny: 00:37:01

I think maybe I used to, maybe I used to feel that same way, but it

Johnny: 00:37:07

think myself and many people have of that there's the sleazy side to it,

Johnny: 00:37:14

And I think really.

Johnny: 00:37:16

That isn't what works anyway.

Johnny: 00:37:18

people do want relationship and things like that.

Johnny: 00:37:21

It's important to get into that but what does your book approach any

Rob Elliott: 00:37:29

it's also a lot of its stories.

Rob Elliott: 00:37:32

And so, when people read it, it breaks down.

Rob Elliott: 00:37:36

I give a story about something I'm speaking about so they can relate to it.

Rob Elliott: 00:37:40

So they can relax.

Rob Elliott: 00:37:43

People say, I can teach anyone to sell.

Rob Elliott: 00:37:45

You can give someone a process and they can sell, but if they're enjoying

Rob Elliott: 00:37:54

So the book is about teaching people, the basic skills to enjoy

Rob Elliott: 00:38:00

Once you get them to relax, all of a sudden, they sell standing on their head,

Rob Elliott: 00:38:08

They've got to learn questioning techniques or closing.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:12

They've got to learn all that.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:13

And that's what the .Book's all about.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:15

And it's system it's written in everyday language.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:18

It doesn't matter where you are in the world.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:20

You'll understand it.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:22

Very, very normal English.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:23

It's no huge words or people, me trying to be sound as if I'm more intelligent

Rob Elliott: 00:38:32

And then you look at all the successful salespeople in the.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:36

They're all the same.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:37

They're basic points that they keep it simple and it is a simple

Rob Elliott: 00:38:46

See you later or, you know, a no can mean a yes.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:48

In a year's time.

Rob Elliott: 00:38:50

Learning how to listen, gives you more information than anything

Rob Elliott: 00:38:59

You know, it's a, it's just a lot of fun.

Rob Elliott: 00:39:01

I've had a ball writing it.

Rob Elliott: 00:39:03

My next one will be coming out early next year, but everyone I've

Rob Elliott: 00:39:08

They just said, you know, thank gosh, someone's finally written

Johnny: 00:39:13

Great.

Johnny: 00:39:13

That's super important.

Johnny: 00:39:14

I think what you just said there ties back to what we were talking about earlier

Johnny: 00:39:21

You can get better at it.

Johnny: 00:39:22

You can improve it.

Johnny: 00:39:24

Maybe the similar assumptions that people make that you just supposed

Johnny: 00:39:30

This is all learnable.

Johnny: 00:39:31

This is all what kind of things that people are terrified that they're

Johnny: 00:39:37

You can learn it.

Johnny: 00:39:38

And I think that's a real epiphany thing of that.

Johnny: 00:39:40

You can have fun with it as well.

Rob Elliott: 00:39:42

Yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:39:43

I mean, anyone can drive a car.

Rob Elliott: 00:39:44

Some people drive cars better than the other, but they can still drive

Rob Elliott: 00:39:54

You can tYou can still teach someone toat.

Rob Elliott: 00:39:56

sale from one side of the country to the other, some are going to be better

Johnny: 00:40:05

yeah, absolutely.

Johnny: 00:40:06

That I, I love that.

Johnny: 00:40:07

So, so the books available reminders, what the book is.

Rob Elliott: 00:40:10

It's called The Sales Chain tips tools and an insider's view

Rob Elliott: 00:40:15

chain.com will tell you where it all is, but your normal Amazon's, Barnes and

Rob Elliott: 00:40:21

The audible will be out next month, so that'll be a bit of fun, but it's

Rob Elliott: 00:40:26

So, yeah, Nice and easy to look at.

Rob Elliott: 00:40:28

And I just say enjoy.

Johnny: 00:40:30

I'm definitely an audio book kind of guy.

Johnny: 00:40:32

I D I do all the audio, so I'll be looking for that and definitely look forward

Rob Elliott: 00:40:40

I've just got to try and find a place that is quiet enough for

Rob Elliott: 00:40:46

I've gone to do it, someone will start the mower or someone will start a noise

Johnny: 00:40:51

My, my recommendation, if you can do it is to find the, find a professional

Johnny: 00:40:57

usually hire out some pretty decent

Rob Elliott: 00:40:59

I think I'll be doing that.

Rob Elliott: 00:41:00

I really

Johnny: 00:41:01

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:41:01

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:41:02

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:41:02

That definitely recommended I know a few people in the UK doesn't really

Johnny: 00:41:06

some people who hire out a smaller studios for specifically these

Johnny: 00:41:12

So, yeah, that would be my recommendation because I'm only saying this because

Rob Elliott: 00:41:18

That's okay.

Johnny: 00:41:19

I want to listen to it.

Johnny: 00:41:20

I want to listen to it.

Rob Elliott: 00:41:21

I send you the link when it's released.

Johnny: 00:41:23

Please do I look forward to it.

Johnny: 00:41:25

Besides your own book?

Johnny: 00:41:26

Because books are really valuable to all of us to be able to learn

Johnny: 00:41:32

Are there any other books that you think sales related or otherwise

Rob Elliott: 00:41:39

a book.

Rob Elliott: 00:41:40

There's a book.

Rob Elliott: 00:41:40

out there by name a guy by the name of Sam Cawthorne who owns the a

Rob Elliott: 00:41:47

Sam was injured in a car accident many years ago now, and he's

Rob Elliott: 00:41:53

And a bung leg, but he's very, very good at teaching people how to speak.

Rob Elliott: 00:41:57

And he's written a book called People Follow People, and

Rob Elliott: 00:42:03

And it's very similar to my book where it's basics of leadership and

Rob Elliott: 00:42:09

And it's an easy read.

Rob Elliott: 00:42:11

And if someone who's first just starting out and starting to go

Rob Elliott: 00:42:19

And he's a great guy, too.

Rob Elliott: 00:42:20

Very, very inspirational Sam, but his book is awesome.

Johnny: 00:42:24

Yeah, I love that.

Johnny: 00:42:25

So another one for me to add to my reading list.

Johnny: 00:42:27

Thank you.

Johnny: 00:42:28

That's a great recommendation.

Johnny: 00:42:29

When it comes to people who may be wanting to find it, I find

Johnny: 00:42:35

What's the best way for them to do that.

Johnny: 00:42:37

Is there a website or social media?

Rob Elliott: 00:42:40

you can, you can drop in robelliot.com.au, but most popular is

Johnny: 00:42:47

I like LinkedIn as well for that kind of thing is pretty cool because

Rob Elliott: 00:42:54

Yeah.

Rob Elliott: 00:42:55

As long as you're not digital marketer, trying to flog me

Johnny: 00:42:58

You know, there's a, there's a lot of that, right?

Johnny: 00:43:00

There's, there's a, there's a lot of that.

Johnny: 00:43:01

It's not the best thing to start off with.

Johnny: 00:43:03

I think in terms of building a relationship with somebody.

Johnny: 00:43:06

When it comes to influence and persuasion, what would you describe

Rob Elliott: 00:43:14

Now, which I didn't have when I first started out, was listening.

Rob Elliott: 00:43:21

I was a terrible listener and I used to what we call, listen to respond.

Rob Elliott: 00:43:26

I already made up what I was going to say to someone.

Rob Elliott: 00:43:28

And they were halfway through talking to me these days.

Rob Elliott: 00:43:32

It's I, listen, I take a breath and then I'll respond with a big smile on my face.

Rob Elliott: 00:43:38

It's very hard for someone to knock you back.

Rob Elliott: 00:43:39

When you're smiling.

Johnny: 00:43:41

I learned that after 12 years of being a flight attendant,

Rob Elliott: 00:43:51

Is.

Johnny: 00:43:52

it's good advice.

Johnny: 00:43:54

There's a lot to take away from our conversation today.

Johnny: 00:43:56

if there's one thing I've ever everything else that you hope people

Rob Elliott: 00:44:01

Just be you.

Rob Elliott: 00:44:03

Don't try to be someone you're not be?

Rob Elliott: 00:44:06

true to yourself, just be you and everything else will fall into place.

Rob Elliott: 00:44:10

And that's in life and in business.

Johnny: 00:44:13

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:44:13

Good, good advice for every part of your life.

Johnny: 00:44:15

I would say Rob it has been a real pleasure chatting with you today.

Johnny: 00:44:19

I've got some great stuff to take away from this conversation.

Johnny: 00:44:21

I'm very much looking forward to getting the audio version of

Rob Elliott: 00:44:25

No worries.

Johnny: 00:44:25

I love learning about that.

Johnny: 00:44:27

It's been a delightful chat.

Johnny: 00:44:28

Thank you so much for coming and joining me on the show and we'll

Rob Elliott: 00:44:33

Mate, awesome has been a great opportunity to be in the show.

Rob Elliott: 00:44:35

Love it.

Johnny: 00:44:36

Thanks for tuning in.

Johnny: 00:44:37

I hope you've enjoyed the show.

Johnny: 00:44:38

If you did, please make sure that you are subscribed and consider the price

Johnny: 00:44:45

It means the world to me, and it helps the show to grow.

Johnny: 00:44:48

Let me know what you've learned from the show, what you've

Johnny: 00:44:57

And maybe even who you'd like to see on the show, I'm

Johnny: 00:45:01

Next week, my guest will be Lily Petrescu, who I had a fantastic conversation

Johnny: 00:45:07

you, personal brand business owners to get their books published and to help

Johnny: 00:45:12

She's also looking to help people improve their networking.

Johnny: 00:45:16

She has built up a fantastic network in the UK in particularly in London, which

Johnny: 00:45:23

So I hope you will stay tuned for that.

Johnny: 00:45:24

She is fantastic.

Johnny: 00:45:26

And you are going to enjoy that conversation.

Johnny: 00:45:28

You will definitely love some of the guests I have coming up on Podfluence,

Johnny: 00:45:35

If you haven't seen any of my promo materials coming out for that already,

Johnny: 00:45:39

me on LinkedIn or other social media, because you're going to see plenty more

Johnny: 00:45:45

But the meantime, wherever you're going, whatever you're doing,