Episode 126
How to get paid for public speaking | Grant Baldwin
Getting paid to speak may be easier than you think. I made getting paid to speak one of my top goals and I turned to some expert podcasts to help me achieve it. One of those shows was Speaker Lab, hosted by my guest for this episode, Grant Baldwin.
It was a real treat for me last year to be a part of a special online class with Grant in Chris Ducker's Incubator program and have the opportunity to connect with someone who I had not only listened to many times but also read his book The Successful Speaker 3 times in succession and will probably return to it once again very soon.
Grant invited members of the group to message him directly with any questions they did not get to ask during the event. Not only did I get a fast reply, I got a short video saying hello, answering the query and accepting the offer to be a guest on this show which I had cheekily tagged on.
I got very excited about speaking to Grant and for me, it was a solidification of the material I have been learning from him and a great chance to take a specific look into the authority of being a public speaker and also a podcaster.
I hope you will enjoy this conversation with Grant as much as I did and also share my excitement that at some point in the coming months I will also be speaking with Chris Ducker on the show.
In this episode:
- How to decide what to speak about (for paid speaking)
- The silver lining for professional speakers from the pandemic
- How to find paying opportunities to speak
- The realities of a professional speaking business
- What are the best topics for earning money as a speaker?
- Grant's S.P.E.A.K. framework
- The 2 key tools you MUST have to be a paid speaker
Grant's own podcast is called The Speaker Lab and is well worth a listen. Grant's book The Successful Speaker is available in multiple formats, audio being my preference, and full of great strategy, tools and real talk about becoming a successful paid speaker. To find out for free how The Speaker Lab can help you develop a career as a paid speaker, visit https://thespeakerlab.com/apply
Grant's book recommendations are: The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham and Rework by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson
Remember to check out our friends at Brand Face by visiting LearnAboutBrandFace.com
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Transcript
Welcome to the show.
Johnny:My name is Johnny Ball, this is Speaking Influence the show that delves into the
Johnny:world of influence and persuasion to help you develop ethical influence and build
Johnny:your authority, and to be able to become a powerfully, persuasive communicator
Johnny:to help you grow your business.
Johnny:Guests on the show have generally included experts from the world of influence
Johnny:and persuasion and the people who are already out there in the world using
Johnny:these skills and tools and doing it.
):Today's guest is no exception to that.
):And we are returning to some of the roots of this show really, which is based on a
):desire to understand how important public speaking and presentation skills were
):in terms of influence and persuasion.
):Undoubtedly, they are critical and we've been aware that they have been since the
):time of Aristotle who first wrote and study this in his writings about rhetoric.
Johnny:And so we take a look today into the world of professional speaking
Johnny:from somebody who is helping people all around the world to become professional
Johnny:speakers, get paid for their speaking and to improve their speaking skills.
Johnny:His name is Grant Baldwin.
Johnny:I've been a fan of Grants for a long time, as someone who listens
Johnny:to The Speaker Lab podcast of which grant is one of the hosts,
Johnny:and also he is the author of a great book called The Successful Speaker,
Johnny:which I have very much enjoyed and we do go on to talking about some.
Johnny:One of the content of that book in today's episode.
Johnny:I was lucky enough to be an event with grant not that long ago where i approached
Johnny:grant and asked if he would be willing to become a guest on Speaking Influence
Johnny:he agreed straight away not only did he do that he also helped me with an issue
Johnny:that i was having and is such a nice guy so I know that he's a great person
Johnny:to help all of us I think you'll enjoy the show as much as I did he's certainly
Johnny:someone who we all have a lot to learn from I hope you will enjoy the show.
Don:Welcome to Speaking Influence.
Don:The show that helps you to master the psychology and application
Don:of ethical influence and persuasion, in life and business.
Don:With persuasive presentations and podcasting coach, Johnny Ball.
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Johnny:Welcome to another episode of Speaking Influence.
Johnny:And this time I am actually really excited to be joined by somebody who I have
Johnny:listened to on his podcast for quite a while now, and also have really enjoyed
Johnny:learning from him as well over time.
Johnny:Very fortunate enough to connect at the end of last year.
Johnny:And I was so excited, but he's agreed to come and be a guest on the show.
Johnny:He is the host of the Speaker Lab podcast, and also the the writer, the
Johnny:author of the book, The Successful Speaker that let me officially
Johnny:welcome Grant Baldwin to the show.
Grant Baldwin:Johnny.
Grant Baldwin:Thanks for letting me hang out with you, man.
Johnny:I've been really looking forward to speaking to you.
Johnny:And I just know that I personally have learned so much from you in the time
Johnny:that I've been listening to Speaker Lab.
Johnny:And certainly when I got hold of The Successful Speaker that
Johnny:I listened to it probably about three times in, in succession.
Johnny:'cause I re there was so much value in there.
Johnny:And there were so many things that I just really wanted to get, that it
Johnny:was a very valuable resource and one that I will continue to refer to.
Johnny:So I am very much looking forward to what we're going to talk about today.
Johnny:The theme of this show is influence and persuasion.
Johnny:I wonder who for you has been someone who you look up to, who you admire
Johnny:for their influence and persuasion and for what they've done with it and why?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah, there's a couple of people that come to mind.
Grant Baldwin:One is a coach that I've worked with for a few years.
Grant Baldwin:His name is Aaron Walker.
Grant Baldwin:I live in the Nashville area here in Tennessee and he's he's
Grant Baldwin:probably 20, 25 years older than me.
Grant Baldwin:He's a successful entrepreneur.
Grant Baldwin:He's also just a, an amazing husband, an amazing father.
Grant Baldwin:So he's had a huge impact on me and just his own influence on
Grant Baldwin:me in his life in my own life.
Grant Baldwin:I know that there's a, several guys and friends of mine that we all look up to.
Grant Baldwin:We admire Aaron.
Grant Baldwin:Like that's the kind of guy that we want to be like whenever we grew up,
Grant Baldwin:not because of anything that, you know, tactical that he's done in terms of
Grant Baldwin:influence or persuasion, but by, in terms of like how he lives his life.
Grant Baldwin:And so, he is definitely a great example of that.
Grant Baldwin:Someone like a Michael Hyatt is another example of someone who just checks a
Grant Baldwin:lot of boxes of, I'm not just like what they've done in business or in terms of
Grant Baldwin:like their influence or persuasion just in terms of entrepreneurship, but just
Grant Baldwin:who they are as a human being, who they are as a dad, as a husband as a, as just
Grant Baldwin:a human like that, that certainly had a big influence and impact in my world.
Johnny:Fantastic.
Johnny:Some great answers there as well.
Johnny:Now I've been a listener to Speaker Lab for some time, and one of the main
Johnny:reasons why I've started listening to why I knew who you were long before I ever
Johnny:encountered you in Chris Ducker's world,, which is where we actually got to connect.
Johnny:And but one of the reasons why is because I was, I've been very
Johnny:interested in public speaking.
Johnny:And as far as this show goes, probably speaking is an integral
Johnny:part of influence and persuasion.
Johnny:It's so vital because if you want to be someone who is a leader, someone who
Johnny:has great influence, you have to be able to present and speak well in public.
Johnny:But I wonder for you, what first got you interested or
Johnny:thinking about public speaking?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah, I know that for a lot of people, public speaking is
Grant Baldwin:one of the people's greatest fears.
Grant Baldwin:I know it is certainly for my wife.
Grant Baldwin:Anytime I've been speaking, she's like, don't, you dare bring me up on stage.
Grant Baldwin:I don't want to talk in front of anybody, anything like that.
Grant Baldwin:But for whatever reason, whenever even when I was young speaking was
Grant Baldwin:one of those things that I look forward to like an in speech class.
Grant Baldwin:I was like, I look forward to giving a speech.
Grant Baldwin:I was still nervous and you still have the butterflies.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:And that's normal and natural.
Grant Baldwin:But I was just excited about the opportunity.
Grant Baldwin:I remember even into college, the same sort of thing.
Grant Baldwin:And so, I was pretty involved in my local church and I had a lot of had
Grant Baldwin:a few opportunities to speak here and there maybe teach a Sunday school class.
Grant Baldwin:And for whatever reason, it was just something that I gravitated
Grant Baldwin:toward and something that I felt like this is something that is
Grant Baldwin:appealing and interesting to me.
Grant Baldwin:In college.
Grant Baldwin:I actually worked for a guy who was a full-time speaker.
Grant Baldwin:And so kinda got to see a little bit behind the scenes
Grant Baldwin:of how does the business work?
Grant Baldwin:How does he book gigs and travel and working with clients
Grant Baldwin:and what does he speak about?
Grant Baldwin:And like, how does that world work?
Grant Baldwin:And so, I don't know, I just kind of, I've kind of been around it a little
Grant Baldwin:bit growing up, but also recognize like, this is something I enjoy
Grant Baldwin:doing and I wanted to do more of it.
Grant Baldwin:Met a couple guys who were full-time speakers started stalking them
Grant Baldwin:and harassing them like, Hey, how do I, how do I do what you do?
Grant Baldwin:And eventually learned a couple of things and became a full-time
Grant Baldwin:speaker and was doing over the course of a couple of years.
Grant Baldwin:I was doing 60, 70 gigs a year.
Grant Baldwin:And it was awesome.
Grant Baldwin:So speaking is just one of those things that I just I'm
Grant Baldwin:really, really passionate about.
Grant Baldwin:I really, really enjoy, you know, there's, there's a lot of different forms of media,
Grant Baldwin:whether that's a a book or a podcast or a blog or whatever it may be or social
Grant Baldwin:media, but there's nothing that compares.
Grant Baldwin:Especially like an in-person event.
Grant Baldwin:And I know that times are weird with the pandemic, but being together with
Grant Baldwin:other human beings in a shared space, sharing an experience in a moment via
Grant Baldwin:speaker is really, really powerful.
Grant Baldwin:So, yeah.
Grant Baldwin:I'm a huge, huge fan of, of all things speaking.
Johnny:One of the reasons why I particularly enjoy a lot of your
Johnny:content and what you do is because of.
Johnny:One of the things that you are very focused on is helping people to move
Johnny:into the world are becoming paid public speakers, paid professional speakers.
Johnny:I wonder if you could tell us a bit about how you got started, like the
Johnny:first time you got paid for speaking?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah.
Grant Baldwin:Yeah.
Grant Baldwin:So I had a, like I said, I had a few free opportunities here and there, but
Grant Baldwin:the first like legit paid gig that I did where they hired Grant to come speak.
Grant Baldwin:I remember it was this, I was living in Missouri, here in the states at the time.
Grant Baldwin:I got hired to speak at this.
Grant Baldwin:It was this four H event, which four H is like a, it's like a youth conference or a
Grant Baldwin:youth organization for students that are interested in agriculture and farming.
Grant Baldwin:I didn't come from a farming land.
Grant Baldwin:I didn't know anything about that, but I knew it was an opportunity
Grant Baldwin:to speak and talk about leadership.
Grant Baldwin:And so went to the event and I spent so much time practicing
Grant Baldwin:and preparing and rehearsing.
Grant Baldwin:I remember, you know, the night before and the hotel room, just going over
Grant Baldwin:my talk time and time and time again.
Grant Baldwin:And then the morning going over the talk time and time and time again.
Grant Baldwin:And so get up, deliver the presentation and spoke for about 30, 45 minutes in
Grant Baldwin:front of a group, about 300 students or so high school students, mostly.
Grant Baldwin:And, and it just, I finished up and they gave me a standing ovation
Grant Baldwin:and I was just like, man, that, that went really, really well.
Grant Baldwin:And it's just kinda like the bug bit you.
Grant Baldwin:And just like, I got to do more of those.
Grant Baldwin:What do I do from here?
Grant Baldwin:How do I book more of these?
Grant Baldwin:How do I find more of these opportunities?
Grant Baldwin:And as part of it was certainly like the impact that I was
Grant Baldwin:able to make as a speaker.
Grant Baldwin:Also afterwards the event planner came up and it was like,
Grant Baldwin:Hey, you did an amazing job.
Grant Baldwin:Hands me, my check.
Grant Baldwin:The check was for a thousand dollars, which was just like
Grant Baldwin:a billion dollars in my mind.
Grant Baldwin:Like, I can't believe I just, they just paid me a thousand dollars to stand
Grant Baldwin:in front of his audience and speak.
Grant Baldwin:And it was just like a really, really powerful moment of
Grant Baldwin:this was really rewarding.
Grant Baldwin:This was really fulfilling.
Grant Baldwin:It just checks so many boxes of what I wanted to do and also be
Grant Baldwin:able to make a good living at it.
Grant Baldwin:And so, yeah, that's that's really what.
Grant Baldwin:I guess that was some of the initial momentum, initial excitement
Grant Baldwin:of being a speaker came from.
Johnny:And are the things that you talk about professionally now, the same
Johnny:or similar to the things you talked about when you first got started or
Johnny:has there been an evolution there?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah, there's certainly been an evolution, you know, and I
Grant Baldwin:think that there are certainly some speakers who they find what that one
Grant Baldwin:thing is that they want to speak about.
Grant Baldwin:And they speak about that for, you know, the good majority of their career.
Grant Baldwin:I think that can also be a bit of a limiting belief.
Grant Baldwin:And this is where some, especially early on in the speakers career, they can get
Grant Baldwin:a little bit hung up of feeling like
Grant Baldwin:okay.
Grant Baldwin:I need to get clear on who I speak to, what problem that I solve,
Grant Baldwin:but we feel like we're, we're making like a permanent decision.
Grant Baldwin:Like, okay, if I speak about this and that's the only thing I can ever speak
Grant Baldwin:about forever and ever, and ever, and no, that's not necessarily the case.
Grant Baldwin:Like there's a variety of speakers who will may speak on this for a period
Grant Baldwin:of time for maybe a couple of years.
Grant Baldwin:And then maybe it kind of evolves into a kind of a tangental type
Grant Baldwin:of topic and maybe they go a bit of a different direction.
Grant Baldwin:And that's relatively normal.
Grant Baldwin:So whenever you're figuring out what it is that you might speak on, don't
Grant Baldwin:feel like, again, you're making this permanent decision that you
Grant Baldwin:can never, never, ever, ever change.
Grant Baldwin:We're picking a starting point just to start to build some momentum.
Grant Baldwin:And then again, if you need to pivot or adjust down the road, that's totally fine.
Grant Baldwin:And that tends to be the case with with a lot of speakers.
Grant Baldwin:And that was certainly the case in my own journey.
Johnny:Yeah,
Johnny:Would now be a good time for people to be thinking about this or whatever.
Johnny:I'd like to become a paid speaker, but I'm also aware that we've had a pandemic
Johnny:and I've heard from other speakers that speaking opportunities dried up and
Johnny:this all changed in the speaking world.
Johnny:Is it still a good career for people to move into?
Johnny:And is this still a good time to do that?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah, I know this sounds weird, but it is absolutely I think the
Grant Baldwin:best possible time for speakers right now.
Grant Baldwin:And here's what I mean by that is pre pandemic.
Grant Baldwin:Really the only opportunities that existed were live in-person events.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:And then the pandemic hits and, you know, for certainly a few weeks,
Grant Baldwin:a few months there at the whole world is going like, holy cow.
Grant Baldwin:We're like, what is going on?
Grant Baldwin:And I know for me personally, Man, I'm watching all these speakers schedules,
Grant Baldwin:just getting decimated and like this, you know, this is affecting the world,
Grant Baldwin:but certainly the speaking industry, but what happened then that we began to see
Grant Baldwin:is that then you see all these virtual opportunities that began to pop up.
Grant Baldwin:And so prior to the pandemic, virtual just wasn't really a thing.
Grant Baldwin:Like it wasn't, it was something that, a few speakers would do a few event planners
Grant Baldwin:to do, but it just wasn't something that people really took seriously.
Grant Baldwin:And then what happened is the pandemic hits and it's becomes the only option.
Grant Baldwin:Virtual is the only game in town, right?
Grant Baldwin:And so virtual takes off.
Grant Baldwin:And now all of a sudden you have a lot of people who see the viability of it
Grant Baldwin:and realize like, Hey, there's a there's for event planners and for speakers,
Grant Baldwin:there's real opportunities for virtual.
Grant Baldwin:But what we've seen now, as we are coming up on around two years, post
Grant Baldwin:the real start of the pandemic is that now that live events continue to come
Grant Baldwin:back more and more, it doesn't mean that they are replacing virtual events.
Grant Baldwin:It means that now.
Grant Baldwin:Both opportunities that exist.
Grant Baldwin:And so there's a lot of events that didn't previously have a
Grant Baldwin:live event that we'll do virtual.
Grant Baldwin:There's a lot of live events that are coming back and doing live events.
Grant Baldwin:There's a lot more opportunities to do hybrid events where maybe there
Grant Baldwin:you're speaking live, but there's also a virtual component to it.
Grant Baldwin:There's also opportunities for speakers to combine them, meaning that Hey, let me.
Grant Baldwin:Speak and do kind of a kickoff keynote.
Grant Baldwin:And then let me do a zoom virtual presentation for three months follow up.
Grant Baldwin:That's going to be for a bigger fee than had I just done the
Grant Baldwin:live in-person to begin with.
Grant Baldwin:So again, if anything, I think there are way more opportunities
Grant Baldwin:that have ever been available.
Grant Baldwin:Because of the pandemic.
Grant Baldwin:And so again, it's kind of one of the silver linings that
Grant Baldwin:has come out of all of this.
Grant Baldwin:Is there a major opportunities for speakers who want to speak virtually,
Grant Baldwin:major opportunities for speakers who want to speak live and major opportunities for
Grant Baldwin:speakers who want to do a combination?
Johnny:Yeah, I love that.
Johnny:What you do in your speaking lab work is helping people find those opportunities
Johnny:and create them for themselves as well.
Johnny:So, Who really is a professional speaking career for, is there a
Johnny:particular kind of person that would be thinking about this, or really could
Johnny:anybody go into professional speaking?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah.
Grant Baldwin:One of the neat things about professional speaking is it's not
Grant Baldwin:necessarily a one size fits all.
Grant Baldwin:So for example, when I was speaking full-time I was doing around 60 or 70 paid
Grant Baldwin:gigs a year has a lot of travel has gone.
Grant Baldwin:And some people who may be watching or listening may think that sounds awesome.
Grant Baldwin:I would absolutely love to do that.
Grant Baldwin:And other people like, ah, it sounds miserable, no chance
Grant Baldwin:that I'm interested in that.
Grant Baldwin:And so again, it's not that you have to do, this certain number.
Grant Baldwin:I know speakers who do a lot more than that and it's because
Grant Baldwin:do a lot less than that.
Grant Baldwin:So what's great is though you get to decide how speaking
Grant Baldwin:fits into your world, right?
Grant Baldwin:So maybe personally, you just say, Hey, I'm at a stage in life
Grant Baldwin:where I can't really travel.
Grant Baldwin:I don't want to go that far.
Grant Baldwin:You know, I only want to do live in person gigs where I, I don't, I'm not
Grant Baldwin:gone from the house more than one night, or I'm not gone from the house at all.
Grant Baldwin:Or maybe I only want to do virtual gigs.
Grant Baldwin:You can choose to do that.
Grant Baldwin:Or other speakers who say I want to do only virtual gigs or
Grant Baldwin:only want to do in person gigs.
Grant Baldwin:Like it's you can, it's kind of a buffet that you get to choose.
Grant Baldwin:What makes sense for you?
Grant Baldwin:There's no, there's not.
Grant Baldwin:There's not any rhyme or reason that you have to do it this way,
Grant Baldwin:or you have to do it that way.
Grant Baldwin:Like I can point to 10 different speakers and they're all doing it
Grant Baldwin:in a way that makes sense for them.
Grant Baldwin:So it all works.
Grant Baldwin:You just got to determine what makes sense for you.
Grant Baldwin:So don't feel like, Hey, in order to be a speaker, in order to get
Grant Baldwin:started, I got to be committed to doing a ton of events a year.
Grant Baldwin:You don't like you figure out kind of what makes sense for you, how
Grant Baldwin:you want to go about doing that.
Grant Baldwin:And if you're looking for help and support, then we can absolutely help you.
Johnny:Yeah.
Johnny:And it's an important thing for you to recognize as well that there
Johnny:are lots of opportunities out there and in all sorts of different ways.
Johnny:So some people who may have more of a scientific background and style of
Johnny:speaking, there will be opportunities for you as well as people who have maybe a
Johnny:more motivational and things like that.
Johnny:So I think that's a great way to, to frame.
Johnny:So in the ways that you help people, how does somebody know if they are good enough
Johnny:to be a professional speaker at what are the things that make somebody at least in
Johnny:your opinion, a good professional speaker?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah.
Grant Baldwin:Well, I think it's important to remember that every speaker starts from zero,
Grant Baldwin:meaning that the first time anybody speaks, nobody knows what they're doing.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:And so it's okay.
Grant Baldwin:Don't feel like that you have to be this, you know, Tony Robbins or
Grant Baldwin:Brene Brown or whoever, like out of the gate, like that's not realistic.
Grant Baldwin:That's putting unfair and unrealistic expectations on yourself.
Grant Baldwin:So realize at the beginning, you're probably going to suck.
Grant Baldwin:Like, I, I look back on some of my early talks and presentations,
Grant Baldwin:like, I don't know what I was doing and you're just, you're just trying
Grant Baldwin:and you're just figuring it out.
Grant Baldwin:And so the it's kinda like the it's kinda like learning to do anything,
Grant Baldwin:you know, if you wanted to podcast, the first couple of podcasts, episodes
Grant Baldwin:are probably not as good as the podcasts that you're you're doing now.
Grant Baldwin:If you wanted to write, you know, your first couple of blog posts are not going
Grant Baldwin:to be as good as a blog post years later.
Grant Baldwin:So you gotta at least take a little bit of pressure off yourself, a feeling like
Grant Baldwin:I have to be amazing out of the gate.
Grant Baldwin:Like you're probably not going to be, but you're certainly not going
Grant Baldwin:to improve and get better if you try it once and then just give up.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:And again, that's the same with anything, whether you want to be a
Grant Baldwin:writer or a singer or drawer or a chef or whatever, you have to continue to
Grant Baldwin:put in the reps to get better at that.
Grant Baldwin:And the other thing was.
Grant Baldwin:Is that speaking is kind of one of these unique things where I'll give
Grant Baldwin:an example, like I enjoy playing golf.
Grant Baldwin:And so I don't need anybody else in order for me to go play golf or
Grant Baldwin:to practice getting better at golf.
Grant Baldwin:Now I still got to put the reps in, but it's not dependent on anybody else.
Grant Baldwin:I got to get up and do the work.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:And so when when, whenever it comes to speaking though, it's
Grant Baldwin:a bit different because you're.
Grant Baldwin:You're dependent on an audience, right?
Grant Baldwin:And so you're looking for opportunities where you can get some at-bats
Grant Baldwin:and you can get some practice.
Grant Baldwin:And so even doing something like this, you and I just having a conversation here
Grant Baldwin:for our, for a podcast, for a recording, you know, it gives practice to, okay,
Grant Baldwin:maybe this is some content that I would share in a speech or a presentation.
Grant Baldwin:And so maybe there's a story that I've been practicing or working on that maybe.
Grant Baldwin:Throw in here on a podcast and see how it works.
Grant Baldwin:Maybe I want to do a Facebook live or a YouTube video that just gives me some
Grant Baldwin:reps that gives me some practice that just helps me to get comfortable and
Grant Baldwin:confident with my material, with my content, to be able to present that.
Grant Baldwin:And so, it's a big thing I would say is just give yourself a little bit
Grant Baldwin:of grace and a little bit of patience early on to interpret whatever putting
Grant Baldwin:together your presentation or your talk.
Grant Baldwin:It's not going to be amazing right out of the gate.
Grant Baldwin:And also say like, that's one of the things that we help speakers with inside
Grant Baldwin:the speaker lab is we have a training program where we focus on stagecraft.
Grant Baldwin:Meaning like, let's say, you've got a rough idea of your talk and you're
Grant Baldwin:trying to figure out is this good?
Grant Baldwin:So we want to work with you not only on the talk itself and make sure that
Grant Baldwin:it's polished and ready, but also make sure in terms of how you deliver it.
Grant Baldwin:If you have an amazing talk.
Grant Baldwin:That, that you drop the ball in terms of your presentation.
Grant Baldwin:It doesn't do anything.
Grant Baldwin:And if you're amazing on stage, but you don't have anything to talk about again
Grant Baldwin:you're shooting yourself in the foot.
Grant Baldwin:And so we want to make sure that we help put both of those things together so that
Grant Baldwin:you have an amazing presentation and you deliver it in a masterful way because
Grant Baldwin:your best marketing tool is a great talk.
Grant Baldwin:And so we want to make sure that whenever you step up on stage
Grant Baldwin:to deliver that you're prepared and you can do a great job.
Johnny:Yeah.
Johnny:Now I know from my podcasting experience and probably from my public speaking
Johnny:experience as well, so far that.
Johnny:A lot of what people see is not all the work that goes into this.
Johnny:So there's a lot more that happens.
Johnny:So I wonder from the perspective of being a professional speaker, as a
Johnny:percentage of how much the actual work is, how much is a percentage of the
Johnny:actual stage time of being a professional speaker and how much of it is around
Johnny:the admin, the bookings, the planning, and other things?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah, Johnny.
Grant Baldwin:That's a really great question because one thing I think that is, again, kind
Grant Baldwin:of a misconception is people assume like, okay, I want to be a speaker.
Grant Baldwin:Therefore, the majority of my time, I just want to spend on stage
Grant Baldwin:and like, The icing on the cake.
Grant Baldwin:That's the thing that we want to do, but in order to be able to do that, you
Grant Baldwin:have to recognize that you're not just a speaker, but you're running a business.
Grant Baldwin:And speaking happens to be the thing that you are delivering.
Grant Baldwin:And so a way to think about this as there's a good book by
Grant Baldwin:Michael Gerber called the E-Myth.
Grant Baldwin:And he talks about the example or the analogy of running a bakery.
Grant Baldwin:And so he said there's two sides of the bakery.
Grant Baldwin:There's the baked goods being the actual baker.
Grant Baldwin:Like I, making the bread or cupcakes or cakes or whatever it is that
Grant Baldwin:you're going to bake, you have to be really, really good at that.
Grant Baldwin:But then.
Grant Baldwin:The business of actually running the bakery right.
Grant Baldwin:Of making sure that you're keeping your costs of cost of goods down, that
Grant Baldwin:you're marketing it well, that you're bringing traffic into the door that
Grant Baldwin:your labor costs stay under control.
Grant Baldwin:Right?
Grant Baldwin:So there's being a baker and there's running a bakery and
Grant Baldwin:there's two different things.
Grant Baldwin:And the same thing is true for being a speaker.
Grant Baldwin:There's being a speaker being on stage and delivering a message, which
Grant Baldwin:is kind of the fun, glamorous, sexy, shiny part that people want to do.
Grant Baldwin:And then there's running a speaking business and ultimately
Grant Baldwin:you have to be able to wear
Grant Baldwin:both hats or be able to find someone who can help you on the speaking business.
Grant Baldwin:Because a lot of times speakers are like, well, I don't want to sell myself.
Grant Baldwin:I don't want to market myself.
Grant Baldwin:I just want to get up there on stage and speak.
Grant Baldwin:I was like, I'm sure you do.
Grant Baldwin:But like you got to do the work from running a speaking business from
Grant Baldwin:doing the sales, doing the marketing.
Grant Baldwin:That's the core thing that we teach and we show people how to
Grant Baldwin:do is exactly what steps to take.
Grant Baldwin:You mentioned the book, the successful speaker This is where we talk
Grant Baldwin:about exactly what you should do.
Grant Baldwin:Exactly what you should say, how you reach out, how you follow up.
Grant Baldwin:This is the business of being a speaker, but you have to be able to do both, right?
Grant Baldwin:Because the reality is the majority of your time is going to be
Grant Baldwin:spent on the business side of it.
Grant Baldwin:And so, for example, I remember early on, in my own speaking business, I
Grant Baldwin:had a buddy said, you have to, you have to fall in love with the process.
Grant Baldwin:The result is what we're going for the results of standing on a stage,
Grant Baldwin:but you have to fall in love with the process of doing the work that gives
Grant Baldwin:you the opportunity to stand on stage.
Grant Baldwin:But if you're not willing to do the work and you're just looking for shortcuts
Grant Baldwin:that that's never going to work.
Grant Baldwin:So you have to be willing to do the work to earn the opportunity to stand on.
Johnny:Yeah, it's interesting in my life.
Johnny:I've encountered some people on the way Who don't feel that they ever
Johnny:need to prepare for presentations and public speaking things.
Johnny:And they say that they do perfectly fine with that.
Johnny:And to some extent I can believe that they probably do, but I also feel that
Johnny:they may be robbing themselves of the opportunity to go to an even higher level.
Johnny:And if they can do all of this really well without practice and all the
Johnny:background stuff that go all the other work that goes into this.
Johnny:How much better could they be with that?
Johnny:Would you agree with that?
Johnny:Or do you think that there are just some people who actually do it better on
Johnny:the fly?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah, I thousand percent agree with you.
Grant Baldwin:And so it's kind of like, you know, if you think about like a symphony playing
Grant Baldwin:versus a jazz band playing, right?
Grant Baldwin:So a symphony has their sheet music.
Grant Baldwin:They're going to, we know exactly what note we are playing at each time.
Grant Baldwin:And everyone has to play their part.
Grant Baldwin:And it's very, very precise and jazz is more just kind of
Grant Baldwin:like free flowing and riffing.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:And I think a good speaker.
Grant Baldwin:A bit of a combination of both.
Grant Baldwin:Right?
Grant Baldwin:So the idea of, like you're saying Johnny, that you know, someone just scribbles down
Grant Baldwin:a couple of thoughts in a napkin and I'm going to just hop up on stage and wing it.
Grant Baldwin:I do not endorse that whatsoever.
Grant Baldwin:And I think that that's lazy.
Grant Baldwin:And I think that that's that if you want to be a professional top-notch speaker.
Grant Baldwin:The best speakers on the planet.
Grant Baldwin:They don't just like hop up on stage and like, I'm just going to make this up.
Grant Baldwin:And hopefully it all works out.
Grant Baldwin:They do not do that.
Grant Baldwin:They spend hours and hours and hours behind the scenes, practicing
Grant Baldwin:rehearsing, going over things, thinking about word choices, thinking
Grant Baldwin:about the sentences, 10 words long.
Grant Baldwin:How do I get it down to seven words long?
Grant Baldwin:And does this make sense?
Grant Baldwin:Maybe I should move this story here instead of here.
Grant Baldwin:Or maybe I should cut this and like really there's a lot of meticulous
Grant Baldwin:thought and detail that goes into it.
Grant Baldwin:Now you see that speaker or you see for a, another good example is comedians.
Grant Baldwin:You see a comedian up on stage.
Grant Baldwin:And you think, oh, they're just funny.
Grant Baldwin:They're just, you know, telling some jokes, but no, no.
Grant Baldwin:Like every word is carefully considered and it looks like they're just
Grant Baldwin:doing it off the top of their head.
Grant Baldwin:They make it look effortless, but it's because they've spent so much
Grant Baldwin:time behind the scenes practicing and rehearsing and crafting.
Grant Baldwin:And so again, you know, if you just want to like, ah, just, you know, I'm, I'm
Grant Baldwin:speaking a few things here and there and you're not taking it totally seriously.
Grant Baldwin:That's fine.
Grant Baldwin:And if you want to treat it like an amateur, that's fine, but
Grant Baldwin:don't expect professional results.
Grant Baldwin:Don't expect to be paid and paid well and paid consistently.
Grant Baldwin:If you're just going to go through the motions because an audience can tell event
Grant Baldwin:planners can tell if you are prepared, polished professional speaker, or if
Grant Baldwin:you're someone who's just like, ah, it's just kind of like fun to make it up again.
Grant Baldwin:There's still, like I said, like an element of jazz of maybe, you know,
Grant Baldwin:you kind of throw something out there that works, you know, here's like a
Grant Baldwin:random story I thought of, or here's a little anecdote or here's the.
Grant Baldwin:Punchline that I thought I'd try.
Grant Baldwin:And it worked really, really, really well, like awesome.
Grant Baldwin:I want to make a note of that to keep doing that in the future.
Grant Baldwin:So you may have a point or two where you're kind of like I'm going to riff for
Grant Baldwin:about 30 seconds or something, or here's a funny thing that happened this morning,
Grant Baldwin:you know, that I wouldn't normally share or here I'm kind of in the moment and
Grant Baldwin:something, maybe something happened in the room that I want to share with, with some
Grant Baldwin:current event that you want to talk about.
Grant Baldwin:That's all fine, but don't come into the, with the idea of, I'm just gonna,
Grant Baldwin:you know, throw it together and string together a couple of thoughts and hope
Grant Baldwin:it all just magically come together into a good Polish cohesive presentation.
Grant Baldwin:Cause that, that just doesn't work.
Johnny:Yeah.
Johnny:I think that sort of speaks to the idea of the thinking about probably speaking
Johnny:as just speaking as just getting up onto a platform, live virtual, whatever, and
Johnny:just speaking rather than the whole craft of it, as you really talk about all the
Johnny:stuff that goes into it, or the planning or the stories that get well-crafted
Johnny:and chosen for particular reasons and worked on and movement that goes into it.
Johnny:And why that's there.
Johnny:W how you stopping it and use the right metaphors to use and where to
Johnny:maybe inject some humor and having enough flexibility around that,
Johnny:to be able to know what to do.
Johnny:And again, some of that comes with experience, but yeah, I really liked that.
Johnny:I w we, we agree on that.
Johnny:We definitely agree on that.
Johnny:I think it's very valuable to do that kind of work.
Johnny:What are your opinions on why public speaking and professional speaking is
Johnny:so important in terms of leadership and authority, personal authority?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah.
Grant Baldwin:If you look at just studies and surveys about what are some of the most.
Grant Baldwin:Respected professions.
Grant Baldwin:A public speaker is up there really, really, really high.
Grant Baldwin:Even like up with a, if I remember correctly, it was like w the top
Grant Baldwin:couple with like brain surgeon.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:So if you hear someone's a brain surgeon, it's like, whoa.
Grant Baldwin:Wow.
Grant Baldwin:Okay.
Grant Baldwin:Like, this is like, this is someone who has a very prestigious
Grant Baldwin:and admirable profession.
Grant Baldwin:And it's very similar.
Grant Baldwin:Whenever it comes to speaking someone who is as well-polished, who is eloquent,
Grant Baldwin:who chooses the words carefully, who has that knows how to present well, like
Grant Baldwin:they, they command a certain level of respect and influence and authority.
Grant Baldwin:And so whether or not you want to be a professional speaker, if you want to stand
Grant Baldwin:on stage and do that, that's awesome.
Grant Baldwin:But if you're just like, I don't want to do that, but I have to give presentations
Grant Baldwin:for my work or for my company, or even in conversations or in small groups where
Grant Baldwin:I might meet people or teach a Sunday school class or whatever it may be, even
Grant Baldwin:on a small scale, being able to eloquently present your thoughts or your ideas and
Grant Baldwin:putting together in a cohesive flowing manner makes a big, big difference.
Grant Baldwin:And so yeah, whether or not you want to be a professional public speaker, don't just
Grant Baldwin:cast aside of like, you know, I don't want to be a professional speaker, therefore
Grant Baldwin:I don't need to know how to present.
Grant Baldwin:No, you still want to know how to, again, be able to articulate an idea or
Grant Baldwin:a thought and be able to present an idea.
Grant Baldwin:So, yeah, there's absolutely a lot of I think recognition and again, kind of
Grant Baldwin:prestige that comes with and kind of cache that comes with being a speaker.
Johnny:Are there any particular topics or themes in speaking in that are just
Johnny:a very easy sell as a public speaker.
Johnny:Like Yeah.
Johnny:People are always going to be looking for these kinds of topics and
Johnny:conversely, some that people should just really stay well away from?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah.
Grant Baldwin:So I would say there's kind of a balance there because there's a balance between
Grant Baldwin:what you're interested in, what you're passionate about, what your experiences,
Grant Baldwin:what you want to speak about and what it is that organizations groups
Grant Baldwin:actually hire speakers to talk about.
Grant Baldwin:And there's also, there's gonna be some type of overlap there, but there's also
Grant Baldwin:going to be it kind of depends what your goals and ambitions are with speaking.
Grant Baldwin:Meaning like, let's say you were really, really passionate about.
Grant Baldwin:I'll give you an example, like dog training, for example.
Grant Baldwin:Okay.
Grant Baldwin:And you said, okay, I want to do, I love dogs.
Grant Baldwin:I love animals.
Grant Baldwin:And I'm a great dog trainer.
Grant Baldwin:And I want to do a ton of presentations.
Grant Baldwin:I don't want to charge $20,000 a talk and I want to do 50 presentations a year.
Grant Baldwin:And like, are there opportunities to speak about dogs training?
Grant Baldwin:Yes, I would say so are there hundreds of opportunities?
Grant Baldwin:I doubt it, but at the same time, I'd also say I've been in the speaking industry
Grant Baldwin:a long time, and I'm still surprised by some of the opportunities that exist.
Grant Baldwin:And so I'll give you an example, this like this, take this dog training.
Grant Baldwin:We had a client we worked with a few years ago, who was a veterinarian.
Grant Baldwin:She was a full-time veterinarian, worked with animals.
Grant Baldwin:And she was following our system, following the process that we teach.
Grant Baldwin:And so she reached out and she said, Hey, I just booked my first gig first paid gig.
Grant Baldwin:I was like, that's awesome.
Grant Baldwin:Tell me about it.
Grant Baldwin:And she said they were a, she lived in Connecticut and they were flying her
Grant Baldwin:to Las Vegas to do this presentation.
Grant Baldwin:They're paying her $5,000 to speak at a pet sitting conference.
Grant Baldwin:A pet sitting conference.
Grant Baldwin:So like people who want to be pet sitters who keep an eye on pets
Grant Baldwin:while well, family members or friends are away, they paid her $5,000 to
Grant Baldwin:speak at a pet sitting conference.
Grant Baldwin:So she came to me before and said, Hey, I want to speak at pet sitting conferences.
Grant Baldwin:Is that a thing?
Grant Baldwin:I'd be like, I don't think so, but I'm also not in the
Grant Baldwin:pet industry, so I don't know.
Grant Baldwin:And so here's an opportunity for her to go and speak at something that,
Grant Baldwin:again, I don't claim, like I know every possible event or opportunity.
Grant Baldwin:So again, you have to find what that overlap is between what you're interested
Grant Baldwin:in, what you're passionate about, what it is that organizations and groups are
Grant Baldwin:actually hiring speakers to talk about.
Johnny:Which is the best one to start with your passions or what is actually
Johnny:being what is actually being looked for and working out what you could do or what
Johnny:you're most passionate about from that?.
Grant Baldwin:I think you start with what your, what, you know, what your experience
Grant Baldwin:is because the other thing is sometimes there there's going to be an intersection
Grant Baldwin:there of what you're passionate about, what, you know, what you're knowledgeable
Grant Baldwin:on with opportunities that exist.
Grant Baldwin:And I'll give you give an example of this.
Grant Baldwin:So I remember several years ago, I won.
Grant Baldwin:When I was speaking in the education space.
Grant Baldwin:I did a lot with high schools and colleges.
Grant Baldwin:And so a topic I was interested in topic I was passionate about was personal finance.
Grant Baldwin:I knew for my wife and I, how much like really paying attention to our finances
Grant Baldwin:and having a budget and living on less than we made and saving, just doing some
Grant Baldwin:of these basic things like doing these things made a big difference for us.
Grant Baldwin:So it was kind of like, man, if I could speak to teenagers on this
Grant Baldwin:and they understood this at a young age, like how much more of an impact
Grant Baldwin:it can make for their own financial wellbeing for years to come.
Grant Baldwin:And so it was going from school to school, to school.
Grant Baldwin:Clients that I'd worked with before and said, Hey, let me come teach
Grant Baldwin:your students about personal finance.
Grant Baldwin:And I found like over and over that they like principals and administrators would
Grant Baldwin:say, yeah, we like this is an important topic, but you know, they typically
Grant Baldwin:didn't hire speakers to talk about that.
Grant Baldwin:And so I had to figure out, okay, what's this overlap between what I'm
Grant Baldwin:interested in, personal finance and speaking to students versus what it
Grant Baldwin:is that they're actually looking for.
Grant Baldwin:And so in this case one of the things that they hired speakers a lot to talk about
Grant Baldwin:was helping students make a transition.
Grant Baldwin:From high school into college university and the real world and beyond.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:And so I said, I can speak on that.
Grant Baldwin:And one of the things that I can talk about within that is helping students
Grant Baldwin:with their personal finances, right?
Grant Baldwin:Let me help your students make a transition.
Grant Baldwin:And one of the things, not the whole thing, but one of the things we're
Grant Baldwin:going to talk about is personal finance.
Grant Baldwin:So it's able to present something that I'm interested in presenting
Grant Baldwin:but put it in kind of wrapping paper that they're looking for.
Grant Baldwin:Now, this.
Grant Baldwin:A bait and switch of saying like, oh, you want me to talk about this,
Grant Baldwin:but I'm going to show up and talk about something totally different.
Grant Baldwin:No, no, no, no, not at all.
Grant Baldwin:But saying, what is it that you're, that you're looking for help with?
Grant Baldwin:What are the problems, the challenges, the needs, the opportunities that you
Grant Baldwin:have that I could potentially speak on.
Grant Baldwin:What's my skillset.
Grant Baldwin:What's my experience.
Grant Baldwin:What's what's in my world that I can blend the two and find something that's that
Grant Baldwin:I know that I can present confidently on this, a win for your audience, but
Grant Baldwin:at the same time checks the box of what it is that you're looking for.
Johnny:Yeah.
Johnny:Is it a good idea?
Johnny:And to start out with an idea of the kind of audiences and stages
Johnny:you want to be speaking to?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah, absolutely.
Grant Baldwin:Because one of the dangers that a lot of speakers make, or one of the
Grant Baldwin:mistakes, a lot of speakers make is whenever it comes to speaking,
Grant Baldwin:as we, we just enjoy speaking.
Grant Baldwin:Speaking is fun, Johnny, you and I enjoy the idea of speaking.
Grant Baldwin:We enjoy speaking.
Grant Baldwin:We enjoy being in front of a crowd.
Grant Baldwin:And so we would speak to anybody and everybody who will listen.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:And even people who don't want to listen, we're like, I'm in for it.
Grant Baldwin:We're just looking for opportunities.
Grant Baldwin:We like it.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:And so what that means is.
Grant Baldwin:We end up really broadening the scope of who do I speak to?
Grant Baldwin:I speak to humans, speak to people, my messages for everybody.
Grant Baldwin:And what do I talk about?
Grant Baldwin:I don't know.
Grant Baldwin:What do you want me to talk about?
Grant Baldwin:I can talk about, you know, leadership or motivation or speaking, or talk
Grant Baldwin:about customer service or talk about marriage or parenting or
Grant Baldwin:basketball or golf or whatever.
Grant Baldwin:And like, we started to just.
Grant Baldwin:All these different topics on all these different things for
Grant Baldwin:all these different people.
Grant Baldwin:And what you want to be is you want to be a specialist, not a generalist.
Grant Baldwin:And so think through like, again, thinking about like more of like a
Grant Baldwin:sniper rifle versus a shotgun that you want to target one specific
Grant Baldwin:audience solve one specific problem.
Grant Baldwin:So the way we like to talk about this and think of.
Grant Baldwin:Is you want to be the steakhouse and not the buffet, the
Grant Baldwin:steakhouse and not the buffet.
Grant Baldwin:What we mean by that is Johnny.
Grant Baldwin:If you and I were looking for a good steak, like we have a choice, we could
Grant Baldwin:go to a buffet where steak is one of a hundred different things that
Grant Baldwin:they offer and they're all mediocre.
Grant Baldwin:Or we could go to a steak house where they do one thing, but they do
Grant Baldwin:that one thing really, really well.
Grant Baldwin:All right.
Grant Baldwin:So they don't do lasagne.
Grant Baldwin:They don't do tacos, they don't do pasta.
Grant Baldwin:They do steak.
Grant Baldwin:And they're really, really good at that.
Grant Baldwin:And so, again, it's counterintuitive because you think, well, if
Grant Baldwin:you're a buffet, then you appeal to more people you do, perhaps.
Grant Baldwin:But all of those things that you're trying to serve are mediocre versus
Grant Baldwin:saying, I do this one thing and I do this one thing really, really, really well.
Grant Baldwin:Also look at it just from a financial standpoint, from a fee
Grant Baldwin:standpoint, if you're looking for.
Grant Baldwin:It's probably going to cost more at a steakhouse.
Grant Baldwin:In addition to being a better product, then it's going to cost at a buffet.
Grant Baldwin:And that means as a speaker, the more specific, the more narrow, the more
Grant Baldwin:targeted you are and who you speak to, and the problem that you solve for that
Grant Baldwin:audience, the higher your fees are going to be versus I'm kind of this generalist
Grant Baldwin:that speaks on a bunch of different things to a bunch of different people.
Grant Baldwin:So focus more narrow than broad.
Johnny:Yeah, so it's good advice.
Johnny:And I know that if people are thinking about looking to get paid to speak,
Johnny:as they're not already on that track, that the book is definitely going
Johnny:to help them and tuning into your podcast as well, because you regularly
Johnny:speak to professional speakers about the industry and their journeys.
Johnny:And there's a lot of valuable things to learn from that.
Johnny:could you maybe nut shell or give a few points as to what are some of the
Johnny:things that people should be looking at doing action wise if they are looking
Johnny:to get paid for some speaking work and they're not already doing that?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah.
Grant Baldwin:So like that the core thing of what we teach and even inside the
Grant Baldwin:book that walks through is what we call the speak framework, right?
Grant Baldwin:The speaker success roadmap.
Grant Baldwin:And so that makes the acronym speak SPEA K.
Grant Baldwin:And so I'll just kind of quickly go through it and we
Grant Baldwin:can dig in wherever you want.
Grant Baldwin:And I know you mentioned that you've listened to the book and read the
Grant Baldwin:book and listened to the podcast.
Grant Baldwin:And you're, you're probably familiar with this.
Grant Baldwin:The S is for select a problem to solve.
Grant Baldwin:And we've kind of touched on this, but you just have to be
Grant Baldwin:clear on who do you speak to?
Grant Baldwin:What's the problem that you solve for that audience?
Grant Baldwin:The next part, the P is to prepare your talk, be really, really clear
Grant Baldwin:on what's the solution that you are providing to that audience.
Grant Baldwin:The next part is the E to establish yourself as the expert.
Grant Baldwin:And there's two key tools that you need here.
Grant Baldwin:You need.
Grant Baldwin:Website and you need a demo video.
Grant Baldwin:So without a website, without a demo video, it's just hard for people to have
Grant Baldwin:a lot of confidence or trust in you to take you seriously, to want to book you.
Grant Baldwin:You gotta remember that event.
Grant Baldwin:Are in the risk mitigation business, right?
Grant Baldwin:So whenever they hire you to put you up on stage, hand you
Grant Baldwin:a microphone to talk to their audience, they're taking a huge risk.
Grant Baldwin:I think this person's going to do a good job.
Grant Baldwin:I don't think they're going to embarrass me.
Grant Baldwin:I don't think they're going to say anything inappropriate.
Grant Baldwin:I think they're going to, hopefully they're going to
Grant Baldwin:make me look good to my boss.
Grant Baldwin:Like it's a big risk.
Grant Baldwin:And so they, they need to see a website, a demo video, kind of a
Grant Baldwin:sample there that gives them some confidence and comfort in hiring you.
Grant Baldwin:The next part of the process A is to acquire paid speaking gigs.
Grant Baldwin:Now this is the part that oftentimes people want to fast
Grant Baldwin:forward to, like, I mean, just tell me how to book gigs, right?
Grant Baldwin:But you gotta be clear on the S who do you speak to?
Grant Baldwin:What's the problem that you solve?
Grant Baldwin:You gotta be clear on the P what's.
Grant Baldwin:How do you providing a solution to that?
Grant Baldwin:You gotta be clear on the E having that website, having
Grant Baldwin:that demo video, and then the.
Grant Baldwin:Beginning to reach out.
Grant Baldwin:And again, the system processes that we teach on being proactive to reach
Grant Baldwin:out to potential event planners on building relationships, I'm building a
Grant Baldwin:pipeline and following up and having like basic systems and processes in place.
Grant Baldwin:And the last part of the process is K, know when to scale.
Grant Baldwin:Meaning that a lot of people who are listening right now are interested
Grant Baldwin:in speaking, but also interested in perhaps coaching or consulting or
Grant Baldwin:doing a podcast or doing a course or doing any number of things.
Grant Baldwin:And so we always tell speakers, like you can do all the things,
Grant Baldwin:but you can't do them all at once.
Grant Baldwin:Meaning something's going to come for something's going to come last.
Grant Baldwin:And when we talked about earlier, And that some speakers speak a hundred times
Grant Baldwin:a year and some speak five times a year.
Grant Baldwin:You get to decide how speaking fits into your world.
Grant Baldwin:I'll give you an example.
Grant Baldwin:There are some speakers who they, like, I know one speaker who does like 50,
Grant Baldwin:60 keynotes a year, and he's like, I don't want to do any workshops.
Grant Baldwin:I don't want to do any books.
Grant Baldwin:I don't want to do any breakouts.
Grant Baldwin:I don't want to do anything.
Grant Baldwin:All I want to do is this one specific type of presentation.
Grant Baldwin:And some speakers are like, all I want to do is consulting, but if I got to do,
Grant Baldwin:you know, five or 10 gigs to help kind of get my name out there and to build some
Grant Baldwin:relationships and to kind of demonstrate my expertise, like, okay, I'll do that.
Grant Baldwin:But the core thing that I want to do is actually do consulting
Grant Baldwin:or coaching or do a book.
Grant Baldwin:And so you, again, there's no right or wrong methodology or reasons.
Grant Baldwin:Why you do this versus that, but recognizing that you can't do it all.
Grant Baldwin:So it'd be really, really clear on what are the things that
Grant Baldwin:make the most sense for you.
Grant Baldwin:So again, kind of a, again, as a high-level overview, but that speak
Grant Baldwin:framework the SPEAK like that's the core of what we teach in terms of how
Grant Baldwin:do you follow a systematic plan to consistently get booked and paid to speak?
Johnny:Great.
Johnny:I appreciate you sharing that with us and everything for people who are
Johnny:tuning in that they should definitely go and check out the book because
Johnny:that was all laid out for them.
Johnny:And I think you go into enough detail in there to give people
Johnny:the tools to start moving forward.
Johnny:What I do want to get to with the time that we have is
Johnny:talking about podcasts because,
Johnny:you have a podcast that I've been listening to for a while, and I've
Johnny:been podcasting for a few years.
Johnny:Do you think that podcasting is also a great platform for speakers
Johnny:for getting the message out?
Johnny:Or do you have thoughts around it becoming maybe too crowded as a space
Johnny:or not having as much opportunity as perhaps a few years back?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah, I think you know, I think a lot of times when people think
Grant Baldwin:about whatever trend there is that exist or medium or platform that exists, you
Grant Baldwin:know, whether it's YouTube or whether it is speaking you know, speaking is
Grant Baldwin:one of those things that's been around for longer than you or I have been
Grant Baldwin:alive, won't be around long after us.
Grant Baldwin:So, and POS podcasting has been around for years and years and years.
Grant Baldwin:I've been podcasting for I think eight years at the time.
Grant Baldwin:And there's still like a lot of people that who may not be
Grant Baldwin:familiar with the podcast who may not actively listen to podcasts.
Grant Baldwin:And so sometimes, you know, you and I are this close to it
Grant Baldwin:because we, we host podcasts.
Grant Baldwin:We listen to podcasts, but there are still ample opportunities to to host a podcast.
Grant Baldwin:And I have another friend who And in fact I mentioned him earlier, Aaron
Grant Baldwin:Walker, who's here in Nashville.
Grant Baldwin:He does not host his own podcast, but he has really built a successful
Grant Baldwin:business around masterminds by being a guest on other people's podcasts.
Grant Baldwin:So podcasting can also be a great way for lead generation because.
Grant Baldwin:Do you think about, you know, we've been talking at this point for about 35 minutes
Grant Baldwin:and I don't know about you, but if someone sent me a blog post that was 35 minutes,
Grant Baldwin:there's no chance I'm going to read that, but I might listen to a podcast.
Grant Baldwin:And just by hearing our voices, hearing you and I interacting, you start to
Grant Baldwin:kind of develop a an affinity and, and rapport with the host or the guest.
Grant Baldwin:And I'm like, oh, well I want to learn more about them.
Grant Baldwin:I want to look into what they do or they, I resonate with that person.
Grant Baldwin:And so there, there are certainly like just hearing people's
Grant Baldwin:voices or seeing us on camera.
Grant Baldwin:Like you build trust, you build connection with people via podcasts that may be
Grant Baldwin:harder to do via a book or via a blog or via some form of other mediums.
Grant Baldwin:So, yeah, podcasting is not only a very powerful tool for speakers.
Grant Baldwin:It's still a very effective tool that is certainly readily
Grant Baldwin:available and accessible today.
Johnny:Yeah, I love teaching about podcasts.
Johnny:And it's one of the main things that I talk about as well.
Johnny:And particularly in relation to, to influence and persuasion, I do think
Johnny:there is a really big opportunity for people that as you say, promote
Johnny:themselves on other people's podcasts.
Johnny:What do you think are the opportunities for people starting podcasts?
Johnny:Is that a good thing for people to do in this part of their speaking career?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah, absolutely.
Grant Baldwin:Again, I think you have to be really, really clear about why you're going
Grant Baldwin:to do a podcast and what's the problem that you're gonna solve.
Grant Baldwin:Who's your audience, like, be clear on a couple of those simple things.
Grant Baldwin:I'd also be really clear about how, how, what your goals are with podcasting,
Grant Baldwin:if you're anticipating or hoping that it leads to speaking engagements.
Grant Baldwin:Okay.
Grant Baldwin:So let me give you an example.
Grant Baldwin:I used to well, I host a podcast now called the speaker lab podcast.
Grant Baldwin:And like you mentioned, we've got at this point close to 400 episodes or
Grant Baldwin:do a weekly episode just talking about anything and everything related to to
Grant Baldwin:speaking and the speaking industry.
Grant Baldwin:Right.
Grant Baldwin:And so, I don't necessarily get a ton of speaking inquiries out of
Grant Baldwin:that because I'm, the podcast is not for of implanters it's for speakers.
Grant Baldwin:Right?
Grant Baldwin:Whereas I have a friend of mine who he used to host a podcast about
Grant Baldwin:mobile marketing and using text messaging and a marketing on phones.
Grant Baldwin:And this was several years ago when mobile marketing was still starting to
Grant Baldwin:catch catch fire and become like a bigger thing.
Grant Baldwin:And he would get invited regularly because to speak because he would have,
Grant Baldwin:you know, people who were the head of mobile marketing at some company or
Grant Baldwin:organization who are listening, learning to him or learning from his guests and
Grant Baldwin:say, Hey, can you come teach my team?
Grant Baldwin:Or can you speak at our event?
Grant Baldwin:Or can you do some coaching or consulting with us?
Grant Baldwin:And so you want to remember that when you're putting together a
Grant Baldwin:podcast, What are the goals of the podcast and are the people that
Grant Baldwin:would be listening to that podcast?
Grant Baldwin:Is that going to lead to the goals that you have?
Grant Baldwin:And so you just have to be aware like podcasting is great, but you just gotta
Grant Baldwin:be clear on like, why you're doing it and what it is that you're hoping to, that
Grant Baldwin:it produces for you versus just like, oh, I think it'd be fun to do a podcast.
Grant Baldwin:Like if you just wanna do a podcast and do a podcast, that's fine.
Grant Baldwin:There's nothing wrong with that.
Grant Baldwin:But if you're like, nah, this is going to help me grow my business.
Grant Baldwin:Okay.
Grant Baldwin:But how, like, what are you hoping happens that leads to it growing your business?
Grant Baldwin:The other thing that I would say is some people think, well, I
Grant Baldwin:wanna, you know, I want to make money or monetize my expertise.
Grant Baldwin:And so I'm going to host a podcast and you know, I don't know what your
Grant Baldwin:thoughts are, Johnny, but podcasting is not a great way to make money.
Grant Baldwin:And,
Johnny:Not the moment.
Grant Baldwin:No, not at all.
Grant Baldwin:And like, unless you're in the top 1% where you have massive, massive reach
Grant Baldwin:and downloads, in which case they're, you know, they're making a lot from ads.
Grant Baldwin:Like we don't run any ads on, on our podcast, the way that
Grant Baldwin:we use the podcast personally.
Grant Baldwin:Is one selfishly, it's a great way to connect with people.
Grant Baldwin:And there are people that I'll reach out to that probably wouldn't give
Grant Baldwin:me the time of day normally, cause they're not because they're bad people.
Grant Baldwin:They're just busy and have a lot going on, but are interested
Grant Baldwin:in doing a podcast interview.
Grant Baldwin:So it helps me to connect with people, but too just helps us to, again, build
Grant Baldwin:connection rapport with an audience who may, like you said, John, You've
Grant Baldwin:listened to a bunch of episodes.
Grant Baldwin:Are you like, man, I have pretty good idea who Grant is and whether I can trust
Grant Baldwin:this guy or like this guy, or be like, this guy knows what he's talking about.
Grant Baldwin:And so then people, when we offer our programs or training programs or a book
Grant Baldwin:or whatever it is, you know, people are a lot more comfortable and confident
Grant Baldwin:going like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to invest in this thing or that thing.
Grant Baldwin:Because again, I built that, that, that connection.
Grant Baldwin:With Grant through the podcast, hearing his voice, listening to him,
Grant Baldwin:talk about the speaking industry.
Grant Baldwin:So, so for us, we don't make any money.
Grant Baldwin:We don't make a dime directly from the podcast, but indirectly it can
Grant Baldwin:certainly generate a lot of revenue.
Johnny:Yeah I'm definitely a big believer in podcast being a great tool for building
Johnny:relationships, not just with guests, but with potential audience as well.
Johnny:And being able to hope to have that as a lead, if you're targeting the
Johnny:Right kind of audience with your show as have that as a lead into other
Johnny:things as well, potentially for you.
Johnny:I think I won a very few.
Johnny:I know the very few podcasts has make money from the show.
Johnny:And you know, I do not have a sponsor.
Johnny:I make some money from podcasting, but it's taken a long time to get there.
Johnny:If anyone's looking to make money quickly, I typically wouldn't say start a podcast
Johnny:unless you have a very clear plan and you really know what you're doing then.
Johnny:No, I definitely wouldn't do that.
Johnny:I do want to ask you before, before we wrap things up for your own
Johnny:influence and persuasion superpower, what is your greatest skill or super
Johnny:power in influence and persuasion?
Grant Baldwin:Yeah, I think one thing that I've done a good job with over time
Grant Baldwin:is building relationships with people.
Grant Baldwin:And so whether people are meeting, you know, virtually or people online being
Grant Baldwin:really, really intentional about building relationships, building my network And
Grant Baldwin:like having a genuine interest in people.
Grant Baldwin:And so I think that that is something that has made a big difference for
Grant Baldwin:me and speaking certainly a part of that in terms of having conversations
Grant Baldwin:with people of being interested in and asking good questions, asking follow
Grant Baldwin:up questions of circling back with them, if keeping in touch with them.
Grant Baldwin:And so building good relationships, building a strong network has
Grant Baldwin:certainly helped build my own, influence and persuasion and
Grant Baldwin:personally and professionally.
Johnny:Fantastic.
Johnny:Now I will be including links to the Speaker Lab podcast and to your
Johnny:Successful Speaker book into the show notes for people's are, but I know
Johnny:you also have courses and programs that people can come and check out.
Johnny:So what's the best way for people to find out more.
Grant Baldwin:Yeah.
Grant Baldwin:If you want to schedule a call with our team, and if everything that,
Grant Baldwin:we've kind of been covering and talking about here today with Johnny, if any
Grant Baldwin:of that resonates with you and like, Hey, I want to learn more about that.
Grant Baldwin:And maybe, you know exactly who you want to speak to, or maybe
Grant Baldwin:you're like as so kind of fuzzy.
Grant Baldwin:And I'm trying to figure that out, or maybe you've done a few free gigs
Grant Baldwin:here and there, or maybe you've been paid once or twice and just going
Grant Baldwin:like, ah, I'd love to do more of it.
Grant Baldwin:I'd love to get paid.
Grant Baldwin:I just, I just don't know what to do next.
Grant Baldwin:And that's exactly where I was many years ago of going.
Grant Baldwin:I have the potential.
Grant Baldwin:Like, I feel like I can do this.
Grant Baldwin:I just don't have the plan.
Grant Baldwin:So I had the potential, but I need the plan.
Grant Baldwin:And so if that is that resonates with you and kind of where you're at of
Grant Baldwin:like, I enjoy speaking, I love doing it.
Grant Baldwin:I want to do more of it.
Grant Baldwin:I just, I don't know what to do from here.
Grant Baldwin:I just need someone to tell me or show me, then we'd love to talk with you again.
Grant Baldwin:I go to the speaker lab.com/apply the speaker lab.com/apply.
Grant Baldwin:Schedule a free call with one of our team members.
Grant Baldwin:And we'd be happy to chat with you and understanding what your goals
Grant Baldwin:are as a speaker and what you want to do and how we can help you.
Johnny:Fantastic.
Johnny:Well, that will be in the show notes for anyone who wants to
Johnny:go and check that out as well.
Johnny:Now, aside from your own book, which I do highly recommend as I've listened
Johnny:to it multiple times on audiobook, what books would you recommend?
Johnny:Like books that may be relate to speaking or influence or persuasion or just
Johnny:books they've had a big impact on you.
Johnny:You give us one or two book recommendations that you think
Johnny:people should go and check.
Grant Baldwin:Yeah.
Grant Baldwin:Let me scan my bookshelves here.
Grant Baldwin:You know, a book I read just recently is called The Road Less Stupid.
Grant Baldwin:The road less stupid.
Johnny:Keith Cunningham,
Grant Baldwin:Keith Cunningham.
Grant Baldwin:Yup.
Grant Baldwin:Yup.
Grant Baldwin:Short bite-size chapters and kind of bounce around, skip round, choose
Grant Baldwin:your own adventure sort of book.
Grant Baldwin:I was a really good book and that was well, put together in terms of like each
Grant Baldwin:chapter ended up with a long list of questions for you to be thinking about
Grant Baldwin:and kind of pondering and reflect on.
Grant Baldwin:And so I really liked like a practical book like that.
Grant Baldwin:Another good example is a book called Rework by Jason Fried
Grant Baldwin:and David Hanson, something like
Johnny:I can't remember, but
Johnny:yeah, it's a while back since I read
Grant Baldwin:Yeah,
Grant Baldwin:the guys, the guys from base camp.
Grant Baldwin:And so that's another, like really, really practical one kind of a similar
Grant Baldwin:format to the road, less stupid where it's kind of some short bite-sized
Grant Baldwin:chapters, probably, I don't know, 40, 50 chapters and kind of their thoughts
Grant Baldwin:and various parts of, of business.
Grant Baldwin:And so, yeah, that's another good one that I'd definitely would recommend.
Johnny:Thank you.
Johnny:Well, not going to tell you any more of your time today.
Johnny:We really appreciate everything you've shared with us.
Johnny:I just wonder if there's one final thing, that one thing about everything else
Johnny:that we talked about that you most hope people will take away remember from this
Johnny:conversation, what do you have that.
Grant Baldwin:Yeah.
Grant Baldwin:I think just doing something with what we talked about here, you know, so if
Grant Baldwin:you're listening, going, like I'm, I'm interested in speaking and for a lot of
Grant Baldwin:people, speaking is one of those things that has been on your radar for a while.
Grant Baldwin:And maybe you're like, ah, you know, kick the can down the road, man.
Grant Baldwin:Maybe at some point in the future, I'll do that.
Grant Baldwin:Well, I mean, We just turned into another year.
Grant Baldwin:It's 20, 22.
Grant Baldwin:Like at some point you've got to take action on this.
Grant Baldwin:You know, you don't want to look back and on a life of regret and be like, I
Grant Baldwin:think I could have been a speaker, but I'll never know because I didn't try.
Grant Baldwin:So if speaking is one of those things that's been on your radar, then don't
Grant Baldwin:hesitate to reach out, let us know if there's anything we can do to
Grant Baldwin:help you support you on that journey with us to take that walk with you,
Johnny:Grant Baldwin.
Johnny:It has been an absolute pleasure having you,
Johnny:on Speaking Influence.
Johnny:I've been so excited about it and you've absolutely delivered
Johnny:everything I hoped for more.
Johnny:Thank you so much for coming and being a guest today.
Grant Baldwin:Johnny.
Grant Baldwin:Thanks, man.
Grant Baldwin:It's been a lot of fun.
Johnny:Thanks for tuning in, I hope you've enjoyed the show.
Johnny:If you did, please consider the cost of the show to be sharing it out
Johnny:with your friends and your network.
Johnny:I know that Grant is a great guest and have lots of other amazing
Johnny:guests lined up for this year.
Johnny:So I know you're going to love a lot of the shows that are coming up.
Johnny:Make sure you are subscribed,
Johnny:so you get notified of those.
Johnny:Remember as well to go and check out our sponsors Brand Face.
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Johnny:If you're on LinkedIn, please do come and follow me.
Johnny:I'll put a link into the show notes for you, and you can check out my weekly
Johnny:blog, which has more information, some updates around the show, and weekly
Johnny:articles is called Podfluencer Weekly.
Johnny:It's all about building your influence on social and through
Johnny:the world of podcasting.
Johnny:I hope that you'll come and join me there as well as on the show.
Johnny:And I look forward to seeing you again on another episode of very soon for
Johnny:Speaking Influence till next time go and make great things happen.
