Episode 131

How to tap into the power of likeability | Jackie Goddard

It's been said many times that it is important that people know, like and trust you. Likeability and reliability don't seem like the sexiest of success traits and yet, they are some of the most underrated ones, especially when we move away from the stereotypes of successful people being uncaring and lacking in empathy and we are awakening to the need to have a good relationship with our customers and the people whose products and services we buy.

My guest Jackie Goddard has always had a passion for theatre and the dramatic arts and she saw a great opportunity to bring her experience and knowledge from that industry over to the world of communication skills and presentation training. Jackie's business and her podcast both share the name 'The Power to Speak' and if you want to hear me being a guest on Jackie's show, you can go here: https://apple.co/3vGA036

In this episode:

  • How one person can directly affect the course of your life for good or bad
  • Likeability & reliability as influence tools
  • What it's like working with Dame Judi Dench
  • What can we learn from theatre and the arts?
  • How to bring out our joy and uniqueness
  • You have to memorise to _________?
  • What improv does to your brain

and more...

The Ted talk Jackie mentions is by Charles Limb and can be seen on YouTube: https://youtu.be/BomNG5N_E_0

Jackie also mentions several books (if you buy them using our affiliate links it helps to support the show):

  • Plato's Lemonade Stand by Tom Morris https://amzn.to/3MnA2CV
  • The God of Small Things by Arrundhati Roy https://amzn.to/35SeJbL
  • The Secret by Rhonda Byrne https://amzn.to/35SeMUZ (regular listeners will know my thoughts on this book but make up your own mind)

Coming soon, my first book review episode about How to win friends and influence people and a very fun and insightful chat with Alex Sanfilippo from Podmatch and Podpros. Don't miss them

Get the best help with your business branding by visiting our sponsor Brand Face HTTP://learnaboutbrandface.com

Mentioned in this episode:

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Transcript
Johnny:

Welcome to the show.

Johnny:

My name's Johnny Ball.

Johnny:

This is a Speaking Influence.

Johnny:

The show that helps you to build your influence and authority

Johnny:

and master the skill so ethical influence and persuasion to become a

Johnny:

powerfully persuasive communicator.

Johnny:

This week, we are on the topic of communication very much.

Johnny:

And you will know if you've tuned into the show before that I love

Johnny:

talking about public speaking and I often talk to you professional

Johnny:

speakers and speaking trainers.

Johnny:

And today I get the pleasure of chatting with

Johnny:

an excellent speaking and presentation skills trainer who has moved from

Johnny:

a career in the dramatic arts into bringing those skills and talents

Johnny:

with her to help other people become amazing communicators and to bring

Johnny:

some performance into their talks and presentations, which is really essential.

Johnny:

If you've tuned into the show before you'd also know that we will often

Johnny:

have conversations with people from all sorts of aspects of influence and

Johnny:

persuasion, not just public speaking.

Johnny:

So we'll chat to neuroscientists and psychologists, we'll chat with

Johnny:

marketers and branding experts, with political speech writers, professors

Johnny:

of rhetoric, authors, even the occasional secret service agent or ex

Johnny:

cult member, one thing we tried to do is make sure the conversation is

Johnny:

always interesting and valuable to you.

Johnny:

And this one certainly is it was a very pleasurable, enjoyable conversation.

Johnny:

Now, if you're sitting around listening to this thing, grab yourself a cup

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of tea or coffee and enjoy the chat.

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I mean, a good one would be nice.

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Your ratings and reviews really help other people to find the show and

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give me some in encouragement that I'm moving things in the right direction.

Johnny:

My guest Jackie Goddard has a business called Power to Speak and a podcast with

Johnny:

the same name and she is on a mission to make entrepreneurs, leaders and

Johnny:

speakers excited about sharing that ideas.

Johnny:

So I hope you'll enjoy this conversation as much as we did,

Johnny:

all that's left for me to say is enjoy the show.

Don:

Welcome to Speaking Influence.

Don:

The show that helps you to master the psychology and application

Don:

of ethical influence and persuasion, in life and business.

Don:

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Johnny:

Welcome to Speaking Influence, the show where we are helping you

Johnny:

build your influence and master the ethical skills of persuasion.

Johnny:

And today I am joined with a guest who is helping other people to be able

Johnny:

to communicate more effectively, more powerfully, And she has a history in.

Johnny:

The, in the arts, really, she's a history of acting and performing

Johnny:

and designing and dressing.

Johnny:

And we're going to talk about some of this stuff as well I think one,

Johnny:

let's keep everything related to the influence and persuasion stuff.

Johnny:

But we have lots of good things to talk about today.

Johnny:

So let me welcome to the show, Jackie Goddard.

Jackie Goddard:

Thanks so much for having me.

Johnny:

Jackie, thank you for coming on the show.

Johnny:

Really glad to have you here.

Johnny:

Now you sent me over some very helpful information and three things

Johnny:

that were interesting about you.

Johnny:

That, one of them being that your dad was a stunt man.

Jackie Goddard:

I have to correct you.

Jackie Goddard:

My dad is a stunt man

Johnny:

Your dad is a stunt man.

Johnny:

Still?

Jackie Goddard:

Still.

Jackie Goddard:

Yes.

Jackie Goddard:

I, he would hate me if I told you how old he was, but yes, he's obviously yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

Stunting for, for older actors now put it that way.

Johnny:

Well, Fantastic.

Johnny:

I was just wondering if there was an interesting conception story

Johnny:

there, but we won't go into that.

Jackie Goddard:

not that I know of.

Johnny:

No,

Johnny:

not that you know, of.

Johnny:

But but nonetheless, an interesting career to have been in And is that

Johnny:

what led you into a career in the arts?

Jackie Goddard:

I don't know.

Jackie Goddard:

I suppose there must've been an influence there.

Jackie Goddard:

I certainly wanted to be an actor when I was younger and he

Jackie Goddard:

obviously he worked away a lot.

Jackie Goddard:

But yeah, I don't know whether it.

Jackie Goddard:

Whether it was because of him, I think has, I think mainly what came from my dad

Jackie Goddard:

was the storytelling and just that kind of interest In the history of the people that

Jackie Goddard:

we live around, you know, our grandparents are my, I can remember sitting around

Jackie Goddard:

the dinner on a Sunday, you know, Sunday afternoon roast dinners and just talking

Jackie Goddard:

and recounting stories from the past.

Jackie Goddard:

And obviously stories from work that he'd been doing and things like that.

Jackie Goddard:

And he just loved to tell stories.

Jackie Goddard:

And I think that sparked an interest in me, but I think it was more,

Jackie Goddard:

probably more genetic than anything.

Jackie Goddard:

It's an interest in people, I think.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Well, that's definitely a good thing to have in and important for the things

Johnny:

that you're doing now Undoubtedly, it would be, you mentioned you have some

Johnny:

fashion design background as well, but and part of your career history was

Johnny:

being a dresser at the RSC and you have dressed some very well-known people,

Johnny:

one in particular being Dame Judi Dench.

Johnny:

So we have to ask you a little bit about how that was, what was the

Johnny:

experience like working with Dame Judi?

Jackie Goddard:

Oh, well, as you would imagine, she was lovely.

Jackie Goddard:

She, I can't say a bad word against her.

Jackie Goddard:

She was lovely.

Jackie Goddard:

And the thing with the RSC, I don't know if you've ever been backstage.

Jackie Goddard:

It was at The Barbican back then, I think they've all gone from the Barbican.

Jackie Goddard:

Now, the backup in Stratford as they always were.

Jackie Goddard:

But.

Jackie Goddard:

Judy was in a dressing room with the girls.

Jackie Goddard:

So there was a girl's dressing room.

Jackie Goddard:

There was a boys dressing room, a and there was a dressing room

Jackie Goddard:

for the young spear carriers basically, but everybody else was,

Jackie Goddard:

everybody was kind of in together.

Jackie Goddard:

And yeah, Judi was just one of the, one of the actors.

Jackie Goddard:

And that was the fabulous thing about the Royal Shakespeare company.

Jackie Goddard:

And still is that the cast list was always alphabetical.

Jackie Goddard:

So if there was somebody whose name began with a, you know, an a or a B, then they,

Jackie Goddard:

their name was above Judi Dench's name.

Jackie Goddard:

So it was a real ensemble.

Jackie Goddard:

And if I learn anything from the Royal Shakespeare company, that was, that was my

Jackie Goddard:

big takeaway was that there were no stars and actually to bring a production to

Jackie Goddard:

the stage, they all had to work together.

Jackie Goddard:

The actors at the backstage dressers, you know, wardrobe, lighting,

Jackie Goddard:

everybody was, on that there for the same reason to produce that show,

Johnny:

It sounds like that was a Wonderful atmosphere being, being in

Johnny:

there, working with wonderful people like that and having that part of a team

Johnny:

sort of feeling which is always good.

Johnny:

Now, if I'm right this is.

Johnny:

part of what Prompted you and inspired you to become a performer yourself and to go

Johnny:

more into the acting and performing route.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, I, it, th it was the way it happened when I went to the careers

Jackie Goddard:

officer at school, when I was 16 and my mum, I can run, my mum came with

Jackie Goddard:

me and we sat in the office with this, this lady, and she was obviously what

Jackie Goddard:

do you, when you leave school and I said, I want to be an actor.

Jackie Goddard:

And she just, she kind of gave me this look as if to say really.

Jackie Goddard:

So she kind of said, do you belong to any drama groups?

Jackie Goddard:

And I said, no D have you been in a school play?

Jackie Goddard:

And I said, oh yeah, I've been in school plays.

Jackie Goddard:

Do you go to the theater much?

Jackie Goddard:

No.

Jackie Goddard:

She said, no, you don't want to be an actor.

Jackie Goddard:

She said, if you wanted to be an actor, you'd live and breathe the theater.

Jackie Goddard:

What else can you do?

Jackie Goddard:

And I was so shocked and my mum was sat behind me saying, well, she's very good.

Jackie Goddard:

And I just said, well, I'm, I'm not, I'm not bad at art.

Jackie Goddard:

And she said, okay, well, we'll have a, we'll have a look at the art colleges

Jackie Goddard:

polytechnics as they were back then.

Jackie Goddard:

And so I ended up going and doing an art foundation course

Jackie Goddard:

instead of going to drama school.

Jackie Goddard:

And from that ended up going into fashion and becoming a designer.

Jackie Goddard:

Which was the worst thing ever.

Jackie Goddard:

Cause that's, it's not a particularly nice business to be in.

Jackie Goddard:

And I ended up designing for the high street, basically.

Jackie Goddard:

So it was three quarter length sleeves and a patch pocket and

Jackie Goddard:

here, and, you know, there was just no creativity in it whatsoever.

Jackie Goddard:

So I ended up leaving and a friend of mine that I'd been at fashion

Jackie Goddard:

college with was working at The Barbican at the Royal Shakespeare

Jackie Goddard:

company in the wardrobe department.

Jackie Goddard:

So she got me some cover work as a dresser.

Jackie Goddard:

And it was actually, while I was there dressing in what was the pit,

Jackie Goddard:

which was the theater in the base?

Jackie Goddard:

Well, there have been the whole of The Barbican was in the basement basically,

Jackie Goddard:

but this was right at the bottom.

Jackie Goddard:

That was like their studio theater.

Jackie Goddard:

And that's where Judy Dench was.

Jackie Goddard:

That's where the play that they were doing was, but I can remember

Jackie Goddard:

standing in the wings and just listening to a couple of young actors.

Jackie Goddard:

They were, similar age to me, a bit younger maybe.

Jackie Goddard:

And I thought I can do that.

Jackie Goddard:

Why w what am I doing?

Jackie Goddard:

Sorting out people's socks and pants and getting them into

Jackie Goddard:

quick changes and all that too.

Jackie Goddard:

You know, when that's what I want to do, I used to sit in the technical

Jackie Goddard:

rehearsals and just watch the director and, just sit in the empty

Jackie Goddard:

auditorium, just watching them rehearse.

Jackie Goddard:

And so that was when I decided to go to drama school.

Jackie Goddard:

I thought if I'm going to do it, it would be.

Jackie Goddard:

The biggest regret if I don't actually make the effort and go for it.

Jackie Goddard:

So that's how I ended up,

Johnny:

but it's not I, in that one, yeah, one person then kind of

Johnny:

diverted your dreams and desires to go into what you really wanted to,

Johnny:

by saying, I no, you can't do that.

Johnny:

You should do this.

Johnny:

And how much we give, especially when we're younger.

Johnny:

We give credence to those two older people that, oh, well, you

Johnny:

know what you're talking about?

Johnny:

You know what you think?

Johnny:

So you must be right and.

Johnny:

then Takes you years.

Johnny:

there's.

Johnny:

Luckily you came back to what you wanted, but not everybody does.

Johnny:

Some people may be ended up going into staying in those things for

Johnny:

life because one person told them about this is what you should do.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yeah, that's horrendous.

Johnny:

I mean, I remember careers advice at school.

Johnny:

I don't know if you have this, but like you have to fill in these forms

Johnny:

and everything got processed through a computer and then it would come back

Johnny:

and, or you'd have a special class where it would deliver your results,

Johnny:

and tell you what you were going to be when you left school or how.

Jackie Goddard:

the rest of your life.

Johnny:

For the rest of your life?

Johnny:

I think My mind was something like a lawyer or policeman

Johnny:

or something like that.

Johnny:

I mean, it was So that's why I thought that's what I was supposed to be.

Johnny:

because we tend to not always know when we're that young or even

Johnny:

if we do, we tend to believe the information that comes out is when

Johnny:

people are telling us we know better.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

And I think there was a thing that within me that I felt, I felt it so passionately

Jackie Goddard:

that, you know, this is what I wanted.

Jackie Goddard:

I can remember going into the theater when I was about 14 and the butterflies

Jackie Goddard:

in my stomach of excitement of just thinking, that's where I want to be.

Jackie Goddard:

But actually I think, because it meant so much to me.

Jackie Goddard:

I was frightened of doing it back then.

Jackie Goddard:

I was frightened of making a fool of myself or being told that actually,

Jackie Goddard:

you know, why, why, w w what makes you think you could be good enough?

Jackie Goddard:

So, I suppose when that careers officer told me that, or said

Jackie Goddard:

that to me, I did believe her.

Jackie Goddard:

I thought, well, what, what makes me special to think that I could

Jackie Goddard:

be an actor, And as you say, that happens to so many people.

Jackie Goddard:

And it's part of what I do now.

Jackie Goddard:

And through the teaching and through everything is just giving people the

Jackie Goddard:

permission to go back to what they wanted to be when they were that age.

Jackie Goddard:

And just, just do it.

Jackie Goddard:

Just go for it.

Johnny:

Yeah, absolutely.

Johnny:

I see.

Johnny:

It's interesting to talk about how these things can influence our lives, the

Johnny:

whole direction of our lives, and we all have that potential to be an influence.

Johnny:

I think we see just there an example of how he could be a good influence or a not

Johnny:

so good influence on somebody's life, but I'm wondering in general, Somebody who

Johnny:

has been a good influence or someone who you would look up to admire in respect

Johnny:

of their influence and persuasion.

Johnny:

Who would you choose Is someone from your own life, someone

Johnny:

from public life or history.

Johnny:

Who would you select?

Jackie Goddard:

Well, I mean, obviously my dad has got to be

Jackie Goddard:

got to be one of them because he.

Jackie Goddard:

He started I mean, he was one of nine.

Jackie Goddard:

They all nine children's shared one bedroom.

Jackie Goddard:

I think his bed was on the windowsill at one point.

Jackie Goddard:

And he.

Jackie Goddard:

He knew that he didn't want to stay doing what he was doing, what was expected of

Jackie Goddard:

him and exactly in that way, he was, he went from, he left school at 15, went

Jackie Goddard:

into a job it's sort of engineering, but in a factory and just had been there a

Jackie Goddard:

couple of months, I think, and was stood.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, he tells this story that quite often, uh, but stood around the pot boiler

Jackie Goddard:

thing in the mid, you know, the, the wood burner in the, in the center where they

Jackie Goddard:

all sort of stood run, have their tea.

Jackie Goddard:

And he said to one of the old guys, you know, how long have you been here?

Jackie Goddard:

And he said, all like 30 years, man, and boy kind of thing.

Jackie Goddard:

And he said, okay.

Jackie Goddard:

He said and where do you live locally?

Jackie Goddard:

And the guy said, yeah, I live just, just down the road there, around that corner.

Jackie Goddard:

And my dad said, oh, he's, he'd been there long.

Jackie Goddard:

He said, no, no.

Jackie Goddard:

He said, I, I, uh, I moved.

Jackie Goddard:

He said, well, where did you live before?

Jackie Goddard:

He said, I would just, just run that corner.

Jackie Goddard:

And it was just, I think it just kind of.

Jackie Goddard:

It made him realize that actually, if he stayed there, then there

Jackie Goddard:

was nothing else with it.

Jackie Goddard:

Literally that was sick.

Jackie Goddard:

That would be his world.

Jackie Goddard:

And he went home that evening.

Jackie Goddard:

Did this on on the evening standard and such himself, whatever,

Jackie Goddard:

wherever my finger lands, that's the job that I'm going to do.

Jackie Goddard:

And thinking that he could end up on an oil rig or, you know,

Jackie Goddard:

doing something in Alaska.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, he'd really didn't care.

Jackie Goddard:

He just knew he had to do something different.

Jackie Goddard:

And his finger landed on London.

Jackie Goddard:

School of charm requires model.

Jackie Goddard:

So he called them and ended up going for this modeling job, which he

Jackie Goddard:

got, which he didn't expect to get.

Jackie Goddard:

And from that, that kind of led him into extra work and then into film and

Jackie Goddard:

television until he was, you know, Doing stunt coordinating for the bonds and sort

Jackie Goddard:

of different things to, you know, where you've sort of got to in his career.

Jackie Goddard:

And so to me, that that was always kind of, wow, you know, that's, that's doable.

Jackie Goddard:

He went to a drama school, age 30 when I was a child.

Jackie Goddard:

And, you know, he had a family and responsibilities, but he knew that

Jackie Goddard:

there was more and also I looked to him because he is just such a nice person.

Jackie Goddard:

And that's th that just sounds so weak really, but he is just approachable.

Jackie Goddard:

And actually within the, I've seen him work, I've, you know,

Jackie Goddard:

I've been on two sets and seen him work and people just like him.

Jackie Goddard:

They just really like working with him, which is how I think that

Jackie Goddard:

you, you get from job to job or you get to where you want to be,

Jackie Goddard:

because people want to be around.

Jackie Goddard:

You know, and especially in, in those kinds of atmospheres where

Jackie Goddard:

you're working very closely and very intensely with people is

Jackie Goddard:

you've got to be likable, you know?

Jackie Goddard:

And I think that's, that's certainly something I've always

Jackie Goddard:

sort of looked to him for.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yeah, likability is very underrated quality.

Johnny:

but you know, the, I R you've done?

Johnny:

I mean, well, over a hundred shows now are about influence and persuasion.

Johnny:

And undoubtedly likability is one of the qualities of influence and

Johnny:

persuasion being, being likable.

Johnny:

I mean, Warren buffet is famous for saying that he only ever works with people.

Johnny:

that he likes trusts.

Johnny:

But just just general for ease of life and for, social and even professional

Johnny:

lubrication to get places being nice, being likable is super important.

Johnny:

And we sometimes I think we sometimes associate that with

Johnny:

being bland, which it is.

Johnny:

No, it doesn't, say it doesn't have to be nice.

Johnny:

Nice.

Johnny:

Isn't this sort of insipid.

Johnny:

We just kind of polite about everything that is more of a an

Johnny:

activity and a general attitude of caring about people and liking people

Johnny:

and being interested in them, which is which we've referenced as well.

Johnny:

So I can see how your dad then has been an amazing influence on you and your life.

Johnny:

And, and definitely sounds like a very positive.

Johnny:

impact.

Jackie Goddard:

Yes.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah, definitely.

Jackie Goddard:

Definitely.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, I think there is that thing as well.

Jackie Goddard:

And I know from, from working in theater because I, I didn't just, I only did

Jackie Goddard:

a small part of acting really, but a lot of the theater work I did was

Jackie Goddard:

within sort of costume and, and finding costumes for people, making costumes.

Jackie Goddard:

And I never interviewed for a job.

Jackie Goddard:

I literally went from job to job because people knew that I would

Jackie Goddard:

turn up on time, do the job well, and I was good to work with.

Jackie Goddard:

I was fun to be around, I suppose.

Jackie Goddard:

So, you know, and I think, I think reliability and all of those things that

Jackie Goddard:

as you say, people kind of look at as a slightly bland are good things to have,

Jackie Goddard:

if you want to influence people otherwise, you know, you're not going to

Jackie Goddard:

achieve that.

Johnny:

They are they're underrated qualities.

Johnny:

And I think the world, I certainly hope and feel that the world is moving away

Johnny:

from this idea that to be successful in things you need to be hard-nosed and

Johnny:

uncaring and self-serving and mean to people, a complete diva all the time.

Johnny:

And There are certainly people who still, I think a lot of people who

Johnny:

go down that path as well, do it because they think that's how you're

Johnny:

supposed to be to get what you want.

Johnny:

But certainly there are people who go there because that's who they are.

Johnny:

But for the most part, now, people, people want relationship more than ever.

Johnny:

people want connection more than ever.

Johnny:

And and so if you're not likable, you're gonna really struggle with

Johnny:

things like connection with people and building and developing network and

Johnny:

relationship, which I think are the,

Johnny:

Some of the most important things for life and business.

Jackie Goddard:

Judy dench is a perfect, perfect, example of that

Jackie Goddard:

because she everybody loved being around her because she was funny.

Jackie Goddard:

She'd make jokes.

Jackie Goddard:

And she made the work fun and that's, that's why people love her to this day.

Jackie Goddard:

And that's how she moves from job to job.

Jackie Goddard:

Has never, ever been out of work.

Jackie Goddard:

I shouldn't think, and it's all about giving value as well.

Jackie Goddard:

So it's all about not being there for yourself, but

Jackie Goddard:

being there for other people.

Jackie Goddard:

I think.

Johnny:

What I saw from your information is that you've always been someone who

Johnny:

likes sharing knowledge and helping people and teaching people along the way.

Johnny:

And that's something you're very focused on now.

Johnny:

So you are helping people to bring out their creativity

Johnny:

to improve their Speaking.

Johnny:

What made you decide to move from.

Johnny:

Working in the acting and performing world into doing this?

Jackie Goddard:

Well, I mean, early on, I realized that I wasn't necessarily

Jackie Goddard:

going to be paying my bills by acting.

Jackie Goddard:

And actually I always realized in the end that I was really more of

Jackie Goddard:

a director than I was an actor.

Jackie Goddard:

And there is something around directing and teaching.

Jackie Goddard:

You know, it's kind of bringing together a sort of a vision

Jackie Goddard:

and bringing people into that.

Jackie Goddard:

And so you are then, You're bringing people in together.

Jackie Goddard:

You're sort of work again.

Jackie Goddard:

It's that ensemble thing.

Jackie Goddard:

And so it, it was quite a simple move into the teaching side of things.

Jackie Goddard:

It was quite easy then to be the person that was at the front of the

Jackie Goddard:

class saying to everybody, right.

Jackie Goddard:

We need to work together.

Jackie Goddard:

How can we do that?

Jackie Goddard:

And what is it that you need to be able to, to make this work?

Jackie Goddard:

So I got into teaching really to supplement the acting work that I was

Jackie Goddard:

doing and going to auditions and things like that, but actually to work with a

Jackie Goddard:

group of people to bring a production to life was what I ended up doing.

Jackie Goddard:

and in lockdown,.

Jackie Goddard:

And that's what I was doing right up until lockdown.

Jackie Goddard:

But working with adults mainly some young people with learning disabilities

Jackie Goddard:

and when it came to lockdown, obviously all of my work stopped because all of

Jackie Goddard:

the venues were closed or the workshops I were doing just were canceled.

Jackie Goddard:

And so in lockdown, I really had to sort of think about

Jackie Goddard:

what it was about the job that I enjoyed most and in this sort of

Jackie Goddard:

new networking zoom world that I'd taken on into lockdown because

Jackie Goddard:

otherwise I was just sat home alone.

Jackie Goddard:

So I did a lot of sort of networking, which I love doing, because I love

Jackie Goddard:

meeting people and starting the podcast.

Jackie Goddard:

It seemed like a really, I was hearing lots of people saying this, you know,

Jackie Goddard:

this is a whole new world we need.

Jackie Goddard:

It's not, it's not now if you're running your own business, it's not now about

Jackie Goddard:

the poster, the flyer, the advert in the paper, it's now customers are expecting

Jackie Goddard:

to see who it is that they're buying for.

Jackie Goddard:

We buy from people that we know like and trust.

Jackie Goddard:

And so small business owners, bigger business owners, anybody now is kind of

Jackie Goddard:

expected to show up for their customer.

Jackie Goddard:

And so what I do.

Jackie Goddard:

In my acting world of looking at people and saying, I can

Jackie Goddard:

get you to that performance.

Jackie Goddard:

It just seemed that what I had learnt as an actor, the training that I was given

Jackie Goddard:

to become an actor and the feelings and the processes I went through from standing

Jackie Goddard:

on a stage I could see was going to be really, really beneficial to everybody.

Jackie Goddard:

You know, from the learning tech, you know, from breathing from,

Jackie Goddard:

from the vocals, the technical vocal side of being able to project

Jackie Goddard:

clarity, diction, articulation, but also that feeling of being relaxed

Jackie Goddard:

enough to just show up as yourself.

Jackie Goddard:

In front of any kind of audience, whatever that audience might be.

Jackie Goddard:

It might be an audience of one.

Jackie Goddard:

It might be an audience of many.

Jackie Goddard:

It might be looking down a camera lens and, and not knowing who or

Jackie Goddard:

what you're talking to out there, but just giving people that confidence.

Jackie Goddard:

So that's yeah, that's, that was the process really is to, is to go

Jackie Goddard:

from, from teaching and bringing people to that performance, to then

Jackie Goddard:

transferring it to a kind of a business.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

And and what sorts of transformation are you helping people to achieve then?

Johnny:

What, are the things that they're starting off with that you're able to

Johnny:

help them move on from or improve upon?

Jackie Goddard:

I suppose the biggest thing is nerves.

Jackie Goddard:

Is I think it's a well-known fact that people are actually more scared

Jackie Goddard:

of standing on a stage and speaking publicly than they are of actually dying.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, it's just, it's that severe.

Jackie Goddard:

It's, so first of all, it's about.

Jackie Goddard:

Calming people that are enough that, and letting them know

Jackie Goddard:

that it's it's all right.

Jackie Goddard:

They can, they can stand on stage and say what they've got to say,

Jackie Goddard:

what they have to say is important.

Jackie Goddard:

So if a lot of what I do in the beginning is just making people feel comfortable.

Jackie Goddard:

I've been working recently with a somebody in a company that has kind of

Jackie Goddard:

been pushed forward to be the face of the YouTube channel within their business.

Jackie Goddard:

And the guy has all of the knowledge.

Jackie Goddard:

He knows absolutely everything about his business inside and out.

Jackie Goddard:

And he's been doing this YouTube videos and well done to him to actually do that.

Jackie Goddard:

But what he's come to me for is to, to make them interesting.

Jackie Goddard:

And in order to do that, I need to make him feel comfortable doing.

Jackie Goddard:

I need to find what it is in him that makes him in that

Jackie Goddard:

will make him enjoy doing them.

Jackie Goddard:

Because it's very evident at the moment that he's not enjoying them.

Jackie Goddard:

And obviously if he's not enjoying them, the audience aren't going to enjoy them.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, that was a big thing I learned from, from acting is if you're not

Jackie Goddard:

enjoying what you're doing on the stage, even if you're portraying something

Jackie Goddard:

quite sad and quite horrific, if you're not enjoying the process of, of telling

Jackie Goddard:

that story, then the audience went into.

Jackie Goddard:

Either.

Jackie Goddard:

So it's, it is about finding something in, in the people that

Jackie Goddard:

I'm working with that says, right.

Jackie Goddard:

Okay.

Jackie Goddard:

What, what is it that's going to make you enjoy this?

Jackie Goddard:

What is the part of what you're sharing important enough for you

Jackie Goddard:

to put yourself through this?

Jackie Goddard:

And how can we, how can we turn that around so that you

Jackie Goddard:

actually begin to enjoy it?

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

So would you, would you say then that enjoyment of what you do is

Johnny:

the critical piece for most people?

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

So it's enjoyable.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

Enjoyments, another one of those words, isn't it really?

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, it's, I know.

Jackie Goddard:

But from personal experience, if I had a monologue or an audition piece that I

Jackie Goddard:

needed to do, or, you know, a production that was, was going on and I was going

Jackie Goddard:

to be on the stage, I was that actor.

Jackie Goddard:

Then I had to get to the point and I heard this recently memorize to improvise.

Jackie Goddard:

And it really is all about knowing your stuff so well, learning those

Jackie Goddard:

lines, if you have to, but getting what it is that you want to put across.

Jackie Goddard:

So ingrained in your head that you can play, that you are

Jackie Goddard:

relaxed enough with your content.

Jackie Goddard:

That actually it doesn't matter what the audience throw at you.

Jackie Goddard:

It doesn't matter if you trip up walking up the steps, you know, it's so, so

Jackie Goddard:

there in your head and you are so excited to let other people know what

Jackie Goddard:

it is that you are wanting to share,

Jackie Goddard:

that is.

Jackie Goddard:

It kind of exudes from you rather than, you know, when we, when we're

Jackie Goddard:

nervous and we, we don't want us to look up, we don't want to engage

Jackie Goddard:

with people because we think they're going to judge us or whatever.

Jackie Goddard:

It's getting to that point where you can kind of open up to your audience

Jackie Goddard:

and say, look what I've got to tell you.

Jackie Goddard:

Isn't this exciting.

Jackie Goddard:

So I don't know if it's so much of it is enjoyment, but yeah, just getting

Jackie Goddard:

to a point where you can relax enough.

Johnny:

I can see that and I could see how enjoyment is important and I

Johnny:

can see like that that's part of where the enthusiasm comes from as well.

Johnny:

And to be able to just based on my experience some people I've worked with

Johnny:

over the years, if you don't have that, if you've got, and have the enjoyment

Johnny:

and the enthusiasm for what you're doing, you're not even going to put in the time

Johnny:

that you actually need to put in To be able to get to those levels where you can,

Johnny:

as you say, play, you can improvise, you could riff off stuff because you know,

Johnny:

it well enough to be able to do that.

Johnny:

Most, most people are still stuck in that sort of conscious competence stage

Johnny:

of having to be very aware of what they're doing, by having to stay within

Johnny:

certain boundaries because they haven't reached the, what we call unconscious

Johnny:

competence, where they just know it and they don't have to think about it.

Johnny:

as this is what I'm always very aware of We have people who say,

Johnny:

oh, I just wing it all the time.

Johnny:

really?

Johnny:

You do.

Johnny:

You might be fine doing that, but how much better could you be if

Johnny:

you actually really took the time to practice rehearse master stuff.

Johnny:

I always think about, I've had a few people on the show as guests who

Johnny:

have done like improv and and that's been fascinating to learn from.

Johnny:

And I'm guessing with your background, you've probably done your share of improv

Johnny:

before as well, but this whole thing of.

Johnny:

The best improvisers, are the people who do it Yeah.

Johnny:

And why is that?

Johnny:

Because they're practiced in doing it.

Johnny:

And they have all these ideas jiggling around their head that they can

Johnny:

just pull on stuff more quickly.

Johnny:

And so to some degree, the best improvisers are the most rehearsed.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

Um, and it's one of the, you know, if people are asking me for tips of

Jackie Goddard:

improvisation is one of my biggest tips for anybody is because it freeze, it

Jackie Goddard:

just frees your brain, you know, once you practice at it, once you get rid of that

Jackie Goddard:

kind of inhibition of just standing up and saying the first thing that comes out,

Jackie Goddard:

you know, it comes into your head, then your brain gets used to working that way.

Jackie Goddard:

And so then in any situation that you're put in, you are able to small talk

Jackie Goddard:

to do all of those things that people kind of go, oh no, I can't do that.

Jackie Goddard:

It's just get out there and start practicing.

Jackie Goddard:

We improvise every day of it.

Jackie Goddard:

I'm improvising right now.

Jackie Goddard:

I have no script as you can probably tell.

Jackie Goddard:

But you know, we, we open our mouth in conversation and we don't always

Jackie Goddard:

plan what we're going to say.

Jackie Goddard:

In fact, most of the time we don't.

Jackie Goddard:

And so we're improvising all the time.

Jackie Goddard:

And we just play with it.

Jackie Goddard:

That's the thing is I love to get people into a room.

Jackie Goddard:

No matter what they do in their day-to-day lives is just, make it up

Jackie Goddard:

as you go along just to have a play.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, they did, there is a Ted talk out there, which is brilliant.

Jackie Goddard:

And it's a guy called I think benefits professor or Dr.

Jackie Goddard:

Charles Lamb.

Jackie Goddard:

He did a very small research project on improvisation.

Jackie Goddard:

And he puts, he took some rappers and some jazz pianists and put them into

Jackie Goddard:

a scanner body, scanner, or MRI to think, to look at their brain patterns.

Jackie Goddard:

And he got them.

Jackie Goddard:

First of all, to play a rehearsal.

Jackie Goddard:

That they obviously rehearsed went into the scanner and he set up a keyboard on

Jackie Goddard:

the lap so that the P pianists could play.

Jackie Goddard:

And then he got them to just.

Jackie Goddard:

So then they went back in and they did the improvising.

Jackie Goddard:

He did it with the rappers and the pianists.

Jackie Goddard:

And what he saw in the brain scan was the, when they were improvising the part

Jackie Goddard:

of, and I can't remember which part of the brain, but the part of the brain

Jackie Goddard:

that is our inner critic temporarily shuts down while you're improvising.

Jackie Goddard:

So it actually does affect the.

Jackie Goddard:

So yeah, improvising just got to be done.

Jackie Goddard:

Find a local

Johnny:

Interesting.

Johnny:

Well, what was

Johnny:

happening?

Jackie Goddard:

just do it.

Johnny:

Yeah, we'll have to try and find a link to that for the,

Johnny:

the show notes for people who want to check out the Ted talk as well.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Improvisation is very powerful thing.

Johnny:

I mean, one thing is one thing, being confident that you know

Johnny:

what you're talking about.

Johnny:

It's quite another thing to be confident, delivering it to the

Johnny:

level that you're talking about.

Johnny:

And, And that's why I'm kind of glad to be discussing that.

Johnny:

on deeper level thing than perhaps we've discussed on some previous shows

Johnny:

of this, this delivery aspect of it.

Johnny:

We talk about.

Johnny:

We often hear people talking about being yourself, but we don't always

Johnny:

get into exactly what that means, but I think we're hitting on it very strongly

Johnny:

here with being able to improvise and riff is where you bring your

Johnny:

personality into things, rather than just delivering information or presenting

Johnny:

a well-practiced speech is that.

Johnny:

beyond that, to the level where you can, know something distracts you or something

Johnny:

you don't suddenly have to spend.

Johnny:

Five five minutes finding where you were in your notes and looking at Boris

Johnny:

Johnson there for that, you know, you want to, but You want to be able to have

Johnny:

a distraction come up and still be able to know exactly where you are and go straight

Johnny:

back into it or even to incorporate the distraction and play off it in some

Johnny:

way so that it becomes an entertaining part of your presentation, knowing how

Johnny:

to do all of those sorts of things.

Johnny:

comes with improvisation with repeated practice, right.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, you look at the people that we most love to watch.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, certainly me, if, if I'm watching, I mean, I love Ted talks,

Jackie Goddard:

but they are, you know, they're a year in the, making those at least a

Jackie Goddard:

year in the making those Ted talks.

Jackie Goddard:

People have rehearsed that 20 minutes.

Jackie Goddard:

You know, and, and there are there's people out there, like, I don't

Jackie Goddard:

know if you ever watched a, so Ken Robinson, do his talk on creativity, do

Johnny:

absolute favourite ever

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, he just is such a natural, but he knows he's he's rehearsed

Jackie Goddard:

that he's just rehearsed it so much.

Jackie Goddard:

Brenae Brown.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, again, just somebody that is so authentically herself and knows

Jackie Goddard:

her stuff inside out that actually, it, it, it kind of comes across.

Jackie Goddard:

She can, she can talk and make you feel like she's making it up as she goes

Jackie Goddard:

along, but she's not, you know, she's.

Jackie Goddard:

Incredibly, you know, she's rehearsed a lot to make it sound that natural.

Jackie Goddard:

So yeah, I mean, emulation, I think is another great thing though, is to,

Jackie Goddard:

is to find those people that, that you love to listen to and see how they see

Jackie Goddard:

how they work, see how they talk, how they present, you know, you need to

Jackie Goddard:

be authentic to you, but you will be.

Jackie Goddard:

But yeah, just find those people that you look up to that, that you can kind of.

Jackie Goddard:

The way that they present themselves and how they shape their 20 minute

Jackie Goddard:

talk or, you know, how, how they.

Johnny:

Yeah, I think there's there's a big point to this of acting it

Johnny:

being modeling it until you are it for yourself, because it's like learning

Johnny:

a dance, you have to learn the moves and you have to learn them bit by bit.

Johnny:

And then when you learn them, it's going to be a bit, maybe a bit clunky at first.

Johnny:

But as you do more of it, you get smoother and smoother.

Johnny:

And at some point.

Johnny:

The dance dances is you, instead of you dancing the dance because it's so

Johnny:

in your body and set inside of you, that you don't have to think about it.

Johnny:

The moves are pre-programmed We do it when we're driving as well for those

Johnny:

of us who drive, you know, you don't generally have to think about that.

Johnny:

You just do these things automatically, and that's when.

Johnny:

you get.

Johnny:

That extra level of knowing where you don't have to give it so much

Johnny:

conscious attention, but people don't generally want to go through all

Johnny:

the process that's attached to it.

Johnny:

I think that drive and we do it because we know we have to.

Johnny:

But sometimes there are things we want that we don't necessarily

Johnny:

have to go through the process.

Johnny:

But I think even with influence and persuasion, there are there

Johnny:

there are elements that you have to go through procedures practice

Johnny:

you have to go through to get good at.

Johnny:

this.

Johnny:

Whilst there are some people who are naturally very gifted in these areas, they

Johnny:

will always be overtaken by the people who practice if they don't work on it as well.

Johnny:

So, and I think that's true in in any part of life.

Johnny:

I mean, we've seen this Well, the talent code and we talk with if you

Johnny:

hear about Carol Decker Carol Dweck, even she, she talked about that, that

Johnny:

you, you will always be overtaken if you don't actually put in the work by

Johnny:

the people who are, who do So natural talent will only get you so far.

Johnny:

And I think that's where, that's where we find ourselves with most.

Johnny:

of those people expect to be good at something straight away.

Johnny:

And then when they're not oh, well, I'm just not good at that.

Johnny:

It's like, well, yeah, but you could be, if you really want to be.

Jackie Goddard:

I think it's what lots of people are expected to work on to talk

Jackie Goddard:

or make presentations for their work.

Jackie Goddard:

And.

Jackie Goddard:

Sometimes it's not necessarily what they want to be talking about or something

Jackie Goddard:

that they necessarily believe in, but it is expected of them as part of their job.

Jackie Goddard:

And so what I try to do with those kinds of people is because you need to

Jackie Goddard:

believe what it is that you're saying, because again, going back to acting,

Jackie Goddard:

if you don't believe what you're saying, Then the audience, aren't

Jackie Goddard:

going to believe what you're saying.

Jackie Goddard:

So even if you're playing a character that isn't, you, you still need to believe

Jackie Goddard:

the words that are coming out of your mouth because the audience aren't gonna

Jackie Goddard:

believe it, believe it, if you don't.

Jackie Goddard:

And so we, you do need to find something, even if it is work-related

Jackie Goddard:

and it's not something that you're necessarily interested in, you

Jackie Goddard:

need to find a nugget within that, that you can grab hold of that

Jackie Goddard:

you can find interesting that then you can make it your own.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, you can hear people doing talks and they'll say words that they don't

Jackie Goddard:

actually understand themselves and the audience to go would, you can hear it.

Jackie Goddard:

You know, I mean, if you go and watch

Jackie Goddard:

Shakespeare, don't watch Shakespeare done by an amateur dramatic society.

Jackie Goddard:

Bless them.

Jackie Goddard:

You know, they work really, really hard, but they don't have the time to find

Jackie Goddard:

out what it is they're actually saying.

Jackie Goddard:

So half the time, if you, if you watch somebody that does.

Jackie Goddard:

No Shakespeare terminology that well, or they don't understand what they're

Jackie Goddard:

saying, then it's very difficult to follow the storyline because they

Jackie Goddard:

don't understand what they're saying,

Jackie Goddard:

so you don't understand what they're saying, and it's the same with anything,

Jackie Goddard:

you need to, you need to know what it is that you're talking about and find

Jackie Goddard:

something in it that you understand.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

that makes a lot of sense.

Johnny:

But I just think in terms of, and this relates to a lot of the

Johnny:

things that you've been saying.

Johnny:

about In terms of having influence having status and standing the kind

Johnny:

that you would want to have, not with people being afraid of you, when

Johnny:

people, actually looking up to you and respecting you and even not liking,

Johnny:

trusting, admiring you But that comes from being able to show who you truly

Johnny:

are and to be able to be, ha have a relaxed confidence in those situations.

Johnny:

And that can only really come when you put the work in.

Johnny:

It doesn't happen without that time and practice element.

Johnny:

And It's not always what people want to hear.

Johnny:

The people want this add water and stir solution or the

Johnny:

magic pill that they can take.

Johnny:

And the that doesn't exist.

Johnny:

So this is why success, perhaps isn't and why status and influence

Johnny:

isn't for everybody, because you have to put some work into this.

Johnny:

You actually have to put some energy and effort into it.

Jackie Goddard:

it Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, you, again, go back to theater analogies, but I did some work on an

Jackie Goddard:

opera once and I didn't realize that in the career of an opera singer, they

Jackie Goddard:

will have maybe three parts that they sing, that they play in any opera.

Jackie Goddard:

So through their 20 year career, they will only know three parts.

Jackie Goddard:

So it's not like an actor that goes from, because the, it needs to fit their voice.

Jackie Goddard:

It needs to fit, you know, weather, whatever it is.

Jackie Goddard:

Which I didn't, I didn't realize, but that's how they hone those

Jackie Goddard:

skills is that they are just playing that same part over and over again.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, it is the same with an actor going back to the Royal Shakespeare

Jackie Goddard:

company, going back to when I was even doing fringe shows, you are doing a show

Jackie Goddard:

every day, for however long the run is.

Jackie Goddard:

And so by the, you know, by the time you're a month in, you are able to play

Jackie Goddard:

and find nuances and find different ways.

Jackie Goddard:

And most people will have a signature talk if that's what the, you know,

Jackie Goddard:

if that's what they do or, you

Jackie Goddard:

know, their, their, pitch or whatever, it's, they'll do it so often.

Jackie Goddard:

And the more they do it, the better they will get.

Jackie Goddard:

And the more playful they can become.

Jackie Goddard:

And you know, when, when you've got that playfulness, then you, you're

Jackie Goddard:

more engaging people will want to listen to you and want to want to know

Jackie Goddard:

what it is that you're talking about.

Johnny:

It's always interesting people.

Johnny:

People often say they want to be more confident when they're, when they're

Johnny:

speaking and presenting and that yeah, there are tips and tricks that

Johnny:

can help you to get in that mindset.

Johnny:

But nothing is going to give you the same level of confidence as actually

Johnny:

knowing your stuff so well that you're not going to forget it all of a sudden

Johnny:

or oh, that you know, well enough to to riff off it and play with it when

Johnny:

you know, stuff that well, you have every reason to be confident about it.

Johnny:

And, uh, You mentioned about that.

Johnny:

I'm going to have to look into this research as well, because it's fascinating

Johnny:

that when you're able to improvise and stuff, that it gets you out of that

Johnny:

part of your brain, that the inner critic, that's fascinating because

Johnny:

that's often what is pulling people back when they're speaking, presenting,

Johnny:

performing what, however you want to, however you want to look at this

Johnny:

so fascinating area and some interesting, really interesting

Johnny:

things you're sharing with us today.

Johnny:

So I want to ask you, because I believe, I believe as a podcaster myself, that

Johnny:

having a podcast is a great way to build your own influence and to get a message

Johnny:

out there and to help people, in the ways that you can best help them with

Johnny:

your nodded, talents, and abilities.

Johnny:

So What was it that made you want to start a podcast?

Johnny:

before.

Jackie Goddard:

Well, apart from boredom and lockdown really, I think

Jackie Goddard:

what it was was when, when I started my business, say three and a bit years ago,

Jackie Goddard:

and I was really kind of freelancing.

Jackie Goddard:

Around creative projects.

Jackie Goddard:

So I was doing I'd come out of an art centers, that arts development.

Jackie Goddard:

So I was doing arts development work part-time and teaching part-time.

Jackie Goddard:

And so I gave up the arts development thinking that I could do projects

Jackie Goddard:

around sort of community arts projects.

Jackie Goddard:

And when I then started networking and telling people what I was doing, they

Jackie Goddard:

were kind of, I got those like, That kind of look where people go, ah, but

Jackie Goddard:

not really knowing where to put me or, you know, they were busy trying to

Jackie Goddard:

sell me the solicitors, you know, or, or accountancy processes or whatever.

Jackie Goddard:

And I thought this is really odd.

Jackie Goddard:

This is not why, why I came into networks.

Jackie Goddard:

I didn't want to be sold to from the person sitting next to me

Jackie Goddard:

or give me their business card.

Jackie Goddard:

I wanted to actually.

Jackie Goddard:

Form relationships and collaborations and talk to people about my business and to,

Jackie Goddard:

and find out how they were doing theirs.

Jackie Goddard:

And I thought that's what networking was.

Jackie Goddard:

I was wrong.

Jackie Goddard:

So the, so the podcast really came out of a network that I found.

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, I kissed a lot of frogs in the networking world, and I

Jackie Goddard:

finally found one that was wasn't even a, sort of a selling network.

Jackie Goddard:

It was more of a learning platform, really about content marketing.

Jackie Goddard:

And within that, there were a couple of podcasters and I got to the end of one

Jackie Goddard:

of our kind of online zoom meetings.

Jackie Goddard:

And it, there was a guy there called Joseph Jaffe who.

Jackie Goddard:

Has a podcast called Corona TV that he started in lockdown and literally

Jackie Goddard:

from the March put on a podcast show every single day and invited

Jackie Goddard:

content marketers that he knew.

Jackie Goddard:

And he came on and spoke to us within this network that I was in.

Jackie Goddard:

And at the end, I was so full of questions.

Jackie Goddard:

How do you do that?

Jackie Goddard:

Can I do that?

Jackie Goddard:

Is it, are there too many are, you know, I got really quite excited about

Jackie Goddard:

it and I thought, well, you know, it would be a great way to talk to business

Jackie Goddard:

people about their own creativity.

Jackie Goddard:

And because we are all creative, I mean, it just, we're born creative.

Jackie Goddard:

Everything we do is creative.

Jackie Goddard:

But people just don't get that.

Jackie Goddard:

They kind of think, oh, well, I can't paint.

Jackie Goddard:

I can't draw, I can't play a musical instrument.

Jackie Goddard:

Therefore I'm not creative.

Jackie Goddard:

And so it was just, for me, it was a way of, of kind of saying to people,

Jackie Goddard:

well, okay, what is it that you do?

Jackie Goddard:

And, and what is your definition of creativity then?

Jackie Goddard:

What do you think creativity is?

Jackie Goddard:

And just opening up that discussion.

Jackie Goddard:

And but also talking to people that work on.

Jackie Goddard:

You know, I've, I've spoken to authors and people that at the top of

Jackie Goddard:

their, their careers in what they're doing and it's like, well, okay.

Jackie Goddard:

How, how did you get there creatively?

Jackie Goddard:

How did, how has your creativity helped you to get there?

Jackie Goddard:

Just so that you can people that are listening can kind of see.

Jackie Goddard:

How they can do it and see what in somebody else's story relates to

Jackie Goddard:

them and validates what they do.

Jackie Goddard:

And so, yeah, that's, that's why, and that's why I've continued doing it because

Jackie Goddard:

that's, that's what I love about it is that, you know, it's, well, it's just fun

Jackie Goddard:

talking to great people like yourself.

Jackie Goddard:

Johnny

Johnny:

Well, I mean, I've had the I've had the privilege of being

Johnny:

a guest on the show yet as well.

Johnny:

And so your show is called power to speak.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

So people can come and check that out on all the main networks we'll have links

Johnny:

to that in the show notes for people, but, and apart from the episode, with

Johnny:

myself what has been one of your favorite episodes, I'm going to ask you to put

Johnny:

your absolute favorite, cause that that's always impossible to do, but what has been

Johnny:

one of your favorite episodes to date?

Jackie Goddard:

Well there have been at, there's been a few, I have to say,

Jackie Goddard:

but I suppose I made a contact in the states with a philosopher American.

Jackie Goddard:

They call him America's philosopher.

Jackie Goddard:

He's named Tom Morris, and I do recommend anybody check out Tom Morris

Jackie Goddard:

if they don't even come and listen to the podcast, just go and check out

Jackie Goddard:

tom he's written over 30 books.

Jackie Goddard:

He worked at Notre Dame university in the states as a philosophy professor for

Jackie Goddard:

many years before he left, and now does keynote speaking and, and just shares

Jackie Goddard:

his philosophy with the world really.

Jackie Goddard:

And he wrote a philosophy for dummies.

Jackie Goddard:

He wrote if, I think if Aristotle ran General Motors and I read, I

Jackie Goddard:

read a book recently of his called

Jackie Goddard:

Plato's Lemonade Stand, which is, the philosophy behind how we will cope

Jackie Goddard:

with change and how, how we can cope with change in a philosophical way.

Jackie Goddard:

And I know you are a bit of a philosophy buff too, but he's, he is an

Johnny:

I am.

Jackie Goddard:

he was an amazing person to talk to and just so engaging

Jackie Goddard:

the way that he just, talks about life and just shares isn't Uzo.

Jackie Goddard:

So, yeah, Tom Morris, my

Johnny:

Yeah, I love that while I'm there.

Johnny:

I'm definitely, definitely going to check that out.

Johnny:

Cause I I do love philosophy.

Johnny:

Indeed.

Johnny:

I'm no professor of philosophy, but I am someone who has a pastor that and

Johnny:

wish more people were into philosophy because it's such a fascinating area.

Johnny:

And causes us all to think about things a bit more deeply, which I always like.

Johnny:

So let me say that people can come and check out your podcast.

Johnny:

Also on your website, which is powertospeak.co.uk.

Johnny:

So we'll have a link to that in the show notes as well.

Johnny:

But you also do coaching and you specifically work with people.

Johnny:

So kind of, what kind of services would people be able to find there?

Jackie Goddard:

I do one-to-one coaching?

Jackie Goddard:

So, and that specifically with people on either whether they have a

Jackie Goddard:

presentation that they need to make, or whether it, you know, they are

Jackie Goddard:

going to be standing on a TEDx stage.

Jackie Goddard:

So I work with people one-to-one on not just building the confidence or how to

Jackie Goddard:

use their voice effectively but also kind of around the content as well,

Jackie Goddard:

because I think it's really important to shape the content, to use people,

Jackie Goddard:

I mean, obviously there's the word story.

Jackie Goddard:

Storytelling is kind of maybe a little bit overused, but their stories are very

Jackie Goddard:

relatable and lots of people specifically, if they have data to share, forget about

Jackie Goddard:

the storytelling and people will, I love the quote people won't necessarily

Jackie Goddard:

remember what you said, but they will remember how you made them feel.

Jackie Goddard:

And so within that content, I like to find the story in it and work out a way

Jackie Goddard:

that people can kind of tell their story.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah, one-to-one coaching specifically on those sort of issues.

Jackie Goddard:

Team coaching and corporate team building around confidence when

Jackie Goddard:

speaking, when pitching, when trying to make an impact with what it is

Jackie Goddard:

that they're saying, I've worked with.

Jackie Goddard:

It's the C-suite kind of level, because quite often people at that level,

Jackie Goddard:

even then still have a bit of imposter syndrome are a little bit nervous

Jackie Goddard:

about talking either to investors or people that are very, very important

Jackie Goddard:

or talking to their staff, you know?

Jackie Goddard:

So, so anything and everything that is around just helping people to build their

Jackie Goddard:

confidence when they're sort of talking not necessarily on a stage, but just

Jackie Goddard:

talking to the people around them really?

Jackie Goddard:

it's communication, isn't it?

Jackie Goddard:

It's sort of confidence in communicating.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

I mean, we are presenting, communicating every day of our lives.

Johnny:

just not always in those formal presentation situations for sure.

Johnny:

So it's a valuable skills to get.

Johnny:

So all those links will be in the show notes for people to come and find

Johnny:

out more about you and the services that are available from your website.

Johnny:

Let me ask you, I always ask my guests for.

Johnny:

For book recommendations.

Johnny:

What would be a book or a couple of books that have made an impact on

Johnny:

you or you think these are the books?

Johnny:

I think everybody should read?

Jackie Goddard:

Well, the plate lemonade stand, certainly by Tom Morris.

Jackie Goddard:

Just, I suppose the, the books that I like and not necessarily business

Jackie Goddard:

books I like philosophical kind of.

Jackie Goddard:

My favorite ever book is to kill a Mockingbird by Harper.

Jackie Goddard:

And that, I don't know.

Jackie Goddard:

And there's another book called the God of small things by Arundhati

Jackie Goddard:

Roy, which is a beautiful book.

Jackie Goddard:

And both of those books are written from a kind of a child from a child's eyes,

Jackie Goddard:

looking at the adult world around them.

Jackie Goddard:

And I do think there is something philosophical in the way we are

Jackie Goddard:

as children looking at an adult world and how we deal with.

Jackie Goddard:

As children.

Jackie Goddard:

And also obviously the author's looking for.

Jackie Goddard:

To childhood and sort of figuring out what it was about, you know, the

Jackie Goddard:

meaning of life from, from the age.

Jackie Goddard:

So yes those are, I have to say as well.

Jackie Goddard:

And I have heard you in podcast before saying that the secret is not

Jackie Goddard:

necessarily your favorite book, but I have to say, I did read the secret

Jackie Goddard:

about, oh, it must be at least sort of 15 years ago when it first came out.

Jackie Goddard:

And as much as I don't ness, you know, the.

Jackie Goddard:

It just kind of opened my eyes to a more positive way of approaching life and,

Jackie Goddard:

yeah, and it, and it almost validated everything that I had always thought

Jackie Goddard:

I've always been quite, you know, I am the glass half full person, and

Jackie Goddard:

I don't understand people where the glass is always half empty because

Jackie Goddard:

you think, well, what's the point?

Jackie Goddard:

You might as well be positive rather than be negative.

Jackie Goddard:

And there was just lots of positivity in that book that kind of led

Jackie Goddard:

me to a point where I thought, well, I can do, I am capable of

Jackie Goddard:

doing anything that I want to do.

Jackie Goddard:

And if, you know, if I really put the words into action, then.

Jackie Goddard:

The good stuff will come my way.

Jackie Goddard:

So with that, yeah,

Johnny:

Yeah, well, I have to confess that I only watched the movie.

Johnny:

I never actually read the book and by my good friend Brendan Eastman,

Johnny:

when I went on his show suggested that the, book is quite different

Johnny:

and I should give that a read, but you know, I, it's is for me, it's.

Johnny:

A very deep level, nuanced conversation to fully explain what, what I like.

Johnny:

And don't like about all of that Unfortunately, I don't have time

Johnny:

that they have time for, but it's not a complete, like I'm against it.

Johnny:

I arrived it off.

Johnny:

But yeah, I didn't like the movie for sure,

Johnny:

So, but I only really, because I just kind of felt that for a lot of people that

Johnny:

gave this impression that you just have to think about something and it'll set me

Johnny:

up here in your life and it's like, well, Yeah, the world doesn't work, like that,

Johnny:

unfortunately, or maybe fortunately really th and that relates to a lot of what we've

Johnny:

been talking you have to put in the work.

Johnny:

We have to be willing to put in the energy and the work to the things that

Johnny:

we want to be do have and create in life.

Johnny:

So, one thing that I do that I do want to get to as you, what would you call, it?

Johnny:

what would you say is your own super secret super power in terms

Johnny:

of influence and persuasion?

Jackie Goddard:

I think it, I think it probably goes back to just being

Jackie Goddard:

reliable and just being somebody that, that I think my curiosity in

Jackie Goddard:

people, I think my superpower is to see both sides is to not judge.

Jackie Goddard:

And I do wish I do wish a lot of people.

Jackie Goddard:

We're like that a lot.

Jackie Goddard:

I wish a lot more people were like that.

Jackie Goddard:

Not that you know, you're asking about superpower, if that's, maybe that is me

Jackie Goddard:

blowing my own trumpet, but I do feel like I give people the benefit of the doubt.

Jackie Goddard:

I listen to both sides.

Jackie Goddard:

I put myself in their shoes.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah, because I think everybody.

Jackie Goddard:

Is the way they are for a reason.

Jackie Goddard:

And that is, they are all motivated to do what they do for a reason.

Jackie Goddard:

And I always like to find out maybe what that reason is before I judge.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

I mean, I've had to pay in sort of what a neuro linguistic programming, in terms of

Johnny:

getting into someone else's model of the world to understand that, and that that's

Johnny:

what relates to, I think what, you're, what you're describing there as well.

Johnny:

And That's definitely a superpower being able to, do your best

Johnny:

to understand or get into.

Johnny:

Other people's thinkings and see things from other perspectives then your own.

Johnny:

It gives you a much broader perspective on life rather than

Johnny:

being locked into one particular way of thinking or that everything's

Johnny:

black and white or anything that.

Johnny:

So, yeah, definitely a super power.

Johnny:

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Johnny:

If there was one thing that you would most like people to take away from

Johnny:

our conversation today, what would.

Johnny:

that be?

Jackie Goddard:

You have permission, you have permission to do what

Jackie Goddard:

it is that you love to do.

Jackie Goddard:

So go and find what that is.

Jackie Goddard:

Have a, have a think back to what you were doing in the playground,

Jackie Goddard:

aged nine, and then go and do that.

Jackie Goddard:

So I was making up plays.

Jackie Goddard:

I was cajoling all of my friends to make up a play that we, then I

Jackie Goddard:

probably forced them into performing it to the class on a Friday.

Jackie Goddard:

And when I think back now, That's the person I should always be.

Jackie Goddard:

And I think we, we kind of get crushed a little bit through secondary school and

Jackie Goddard:

we come out the other side, you know, by the likes of those careers officers

Jackie Goddard:

doing what we are we think we should do, or we are expected to do, and we kind

Jackie Goddard:

of forget how to play and we forget that nine year old to be when they grew up.

Johnny:

Absolutely.

Johnny:

I have to go and buy a spiderman outfit Now and so I'll be, I'll be back.

Johnny:

in a little while.

Johnny:

I think it is good advice.

Johnny:

We should definitely think back to, to when we were younger.

Johnny:

And that's a great thing to take away those limitations or

Johnny:

the way we box ourselves in?

Johnny:

When we get older, Jackie has been a real pleasure talking today.

Johnny:

has been a lot of value far from it.

Johnny:

Some great gems that you shared, and I wish you the best of

Johnny:

luck with all of your coaching.

Johnny:

and Your continued success with your podcast as it

Johnny:

continues to grow and develop.

Johnny:

Thank you for your time joining us today.

Johnny:

has been a real pleasure.

Jackie Goddard:

thank you so much.

Jackie Goddard:

It's been, it really has been a pleasure talking to you, Johnny.

Jackie Goddard:

So thank you.

Jackie Goddard:

Thank you for having me.

Johnny:

Thanks for tuning in.

Johnny:

I hope you've enjoyed the show.

Johnny:

If you did, if you got some value, if there's something you've learned

Johnny:

or you can use from this show, and first of all, go and use it,

Johnny:

but also share the shout out.

Johnny:

There's a good chance that your friends or network will benefit from it too.

Johnny:

And it helps us to grow the show.

Johnny:

If you do plan on exploring any of the resources we've mentioned in

Johnny:

the show today, please do use the links provided in the show notes.

Johnny:

They do link to our affiliate links, which does help us to support the

Johnny:

show and make sure that we can keep bringing you amazing guests and keep

Johnny:

increasing the quality and maybe even the quantity of the show as well.

Johnny:

If you haven't already checked out on sponsor's brand face, remember to go

Johnny:

and visit them And if you want to get your brand score and you need to move

Johnny:

quickly on this one, because it might not be available that much longer than

Johnny:

you can visit brand face score.com and you can apply to get a free evaluation

Johnny:

of whether your brand is being seen and met in the way that you hope it is.

Johnny:

Now, I said last week that there are going to be a few changes and there will be.

Johnny:

One of the things that I have been doing is rereading and revisiting

Johnny:

the book How to Win Friends and Influence people by Dale Carnegie.

Johnny:

And I'm going to do a bit of a review on that book for one of my upcoming episodes.

Johnny:

You'll be hearing that very soon.

Johnny:

And I've started based on that, started a little series of videos, which you can

Johnny:

find on my LinkedIn profile and pretty most of my social media places for the

Johnny:

show and I'm doing a little bit here about how the principles from how to win friends

Johnny:

and influence people, apply for people who are looking to win over podcast guests

Johnny:

or hosts and build up their influence and authority through podcasting.

Johnny:

If that's of use to you, make sure you're following me on social media.

Johnny:

If you're not already receiving my Podfluencer Weekly newsletter, then do you

Johnny:

make sure you're either following me on LinkedIn or visit, present influence.com.

Johnny:

Coming up very soon.

Johnny:

You'll also be able to check out my interview with Alex Sanfilippo, who is

Johnny:

the creator of PodMatch and Pod Pros.

Johnny:

We talk about how much power there is in the world of podcasting what's

Johnny:

going on in podcasting right now.

Johnny:

And why you might want to be thinking about getting on board either as a

Johnny:

guest or as a host, or maybe even both.

Johnny:

So don't miss that look out for those future episodes.

Johnny:

Make sure you're subscribed to the show.

Johnny:

We'll look forward to connecting with you again for another episode, very soon,

Johnny:

wherever you're going, whatever you're doing, have an amazing rest of your day

About the Podcast

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Podfluence
The podcast that helps business coaches build influence and income with podcasts

About your host

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John Ball

From British Airways flight attendant to global online business coach & trainer with Harv Eker to podcaster and persuasion expert, it's been quite the journey for Johnny Ball. Now the author of the book Podfluence: how to build professional authority with podcasts, and host of the Podfluence podcast (formerly Speaking Influence) with over 150 episodes and over 10,000 downloads Johnny is now focused on helping business coaches and speakers to build a following and grow your lead flow and charisma at the same time with podcasts.